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   Undertoad  Thursday Apr 22 12:50 PM

4/22/2004: New Hubble image: Ring galaxy



Sometimes we see these Hubble images without realizing that these are probably the space images that are going to last and last. These are the ones that'll be posted in schools, that children growing up today will think of as "pictures from space", just as my own generation had its moon images and planet images and eventually Apollo images and such.

Some of the Hubble images are more picturesque than others and you would have to think these are the ones that will be thought of that way, and this new one is very picturesque. The official description tells us that it's 150,000 light years in diameter, the result of galaxies colliding.

More in the full story, which also tells us that "Anyone who lives on planets embedded in the ring would be treated to a view of a brilliant band of blue stars arching across the heavens. The view would be relatively short-lived because theoretical studies indicate that the blue ring will not continue to expand forever. After about 300 million years, it will reach a maximum radius, and then begin to disintegrate."



Troubleshooter  Thursday Apr 22 01:20 PM

Um, wow...



MachineyBear  Thursday Apr 22 02:10 PM

I have to say, This Hubble guy is definately one of my favorite painters.



Elspode  Thursday Apr 22 03:22 PM

A giant ripple in the cosmic pond, I'm guessing...well, sort of.

The shock from the interaction between the two galaxies causes gravitational collapse along the shock boundary, raising matter density high enough that star formation can occur. The ring of hot blue stars are the young artifacts of that, and they won't last long because they *are* hot blue stars, and they burn out quickly.

I didn't read the explanation. Am I right?



xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Apr 22 05:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Elspode
The ring of hot blue stars are the young artifacts of that, and they won't last long because they *are* hot blue stars, and they burn out quickly.
Sigh, the story of my life.


onetrack  Thursday Apr 22 07:03 PM

I am the original cynic .. how do we know there's not a Christmas card stuck to the lens of the telescope? ..

After all .. this was the 'scope that somebody screwed up on, in the lens grinding dept, wasn't it? .. and it had to be fitted with glasses?



warch  Thursday Apr 22 09:15 PM

We gotta go back to Hubble. Theres too much more to see.



ladysycamore  Friday Apr 23 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by onetrack
I am the original cynic .. how do we know there's not a Christmas card stuck to the lens of the telescope? ..
Hahahaha! Thanks for the giggle!!


dar512  Friday Apr 23 11:27 AM

Re: 4/22/2004: New Hubble image: Ring galaxy

Quote:
Originally posted by Undertoad
"Anyone who lives on planets embedded in the ring would be treated to a view of a brilliant band of blue stars arching across the heavens. The view would be relatively short-lived because theoretical studies indicate that the blue ring will not continue to expand forever. After about 300 million years, it will reach a maximum radius, and then begin to disintegrate."
I burn my candle at both ends,
It will not last the night.
But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends,
It gives a lovely light.

Edna St. Vincent Millay


Tomas Rueda  Friday Apr 23 04:05 PM

it is almost tragical that Nasa chose to close the Hubble program to create another program that would put humans in the moon(again) and to Mars. -Here, let me take away your 20/20 vision and let's go to the groceries; you drive of couse.

G, Bush gave the push to the program.



linknoid  Saturday Apr 24 06:01 PM

Well, if we ever get a moon base, it might eventually allow construction of observatories the size we have on Earth, but without the atmosphere. Sure, it will probably be a long time before that happens, but the big deal about Hubble isn't the size/quality, it's the fact that there's no atmosphere in the way. So if we start getting 20 or 30 foot mirrors on the moon, that will blow away anything we have now.



Tomas Rueda  Tuesday May 4 04:34 PM

But I don't think that a telescope on the moon will manage anything. the moon revolves in itself at the same time as it takes to give one rotation around the earth (thus the same side is always shown)

Images from Hubble like the one above require hours, sometimes days to receive enough light form the distant (and dim) sources. Like a still time photo, it has to stay looking at the same spot for the required time. A telescope on the moon would not solve that.
(ex. you are driving at 35mph and a friend has a camera. you were told to take a photo of a diamond earing that a lady is wearing that is in the middle of the park, without pulling over or slowing down the car. it simply can't be done.

the same with telescopes. the car above is the moon, the camera the telescope.

However if you could pull over you can take the picture. such as the Hubble is doing right now.



Slartibartfast  Tuesday May 4 07:44 PM

Earthbound telescopes would be able to take better pictures than Hubble if it wasn't for the atmosphere. Their tracking ability is very very very accurate, and they have optics much bigger than Hubble.

The Hubble is not pulled over, it is playing space pinball like everything else up there (and down here). It does not have the whole sky available to it at all times. It still orbits the earth, so parts of the sky will 'rise' and 'set' as Hubble changes location. Hubble can't see the whole sky simultaneously, its field of view changes over time, it is not fixed. For most targets, the astronomers wait for the object to come into view, then they take the exposure within the time available. During the time of the exposure, the target is moving in the sky, so Hubble has to track it using gyros, flywheels, and gizmos much like a planetbound telescope has to track its target as the earth rotates. For some super long exposures like the Hubble Ultra Deep Field with all the cool galaxies, they can take hundreds of exposures over many days and later composite them, but Hubble can't take one super long shot, the target is just not always in view.



Elspode  Tuesday May 4 09:05 PM

Adaptive optics are starting to allow Earthbound 'scopes to produce images rivalling Hubble, especially in certain wavelengths.



wolf  Wednesday May 5 01:25 AM

I had a patient tonight tell me that such things as taking magnificent photographs from a moon-based telescope was already possible as there is a secret base on the dark side of the moon.



jdbutler  Wednesday May 5 08:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wolf
I had a patient tonight tell me that such things as taking magnificent photographs from a moon-based telescope was already possible as there is a secret base on the dark side of the moon.
Too bad the HIPPA regulations are in effect. I'd love to read some of your case studies.


wolf  Wednesday May 5 01:08 PM

I can tell the stories, I just can't attach names to them.

I've posted several here, but I keep losing them. I thought they were titled "Tales from the Nuthouse", but I tried searching and can't find it.



bjlhct  Wednesday May 5 07:57 PM

Space based telescopes are better than moon based ones.

And of course, it's entirely possible to do space launch for $10/kilo.



Slartibartfast  Wednesday May 5 08:51 PM

Hubble's replacement, the James Webb Space Telescope, is scheduled to be ready for 2011. It's not going to orbit the earth, it is going to instead be in a spot where it is 'trapped' between the earth and the sun- a Lagrange point. It is going to have a beryllium mirror 6 times larger than Hubble's. It is also going to be specialized for viewing in the infrared, which is something you just can't do on earth as the atmosphere blocks those wavelengths.


http://www.jwst.nasa.gov/FAQ/FAQ.htm



Beestie  Wednesday May 5 09:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Slartibartfast
It's not going to orbit the earth, it is going to instead be in a spot where it is 'trapped' between the earth and the sun- a Lagrange point.
Sounds good but why is one million miles away better than an earth orbit? The chance that it will never require service is, imho, quite low - especially with a mirror that has to unfold after it arrives at the final point.

But if it works, the images will show things the Hubble in all its glory could only dream about!


Elspode  Thursday May 6 12:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bjlhct
Space based telescopes are better than moon based ones.

And of course, it's entirely possible to do space launch for $10/kilo.
Cool! I've got $20, and I'd like my digital camera sent into orbit on a timer setting, please...


Tomas Rueda  Thursday May 6 09:57 AM

i've heard of the lagrange points. but aren't lagrange points moving, since they are found between the gravitational forces of both earth and the Sun??? (the earth revolves around the sun)



jdbutler  Thursday May 6 10:08 AM

TR - Try this out...


http://www.physics.montana.edu/facul.../lagrange.html



stlbob  Thursday May 6 10:15 AM

Home, home on lagrange
Where the stars and the planets all play ....



Tomas Rueda  Thursday May 6 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jdbutler
TR - Try this out...


http://www.physics.montana.edu/facul.../lagrange.html



thanks for the info.


wolf  Thursday May 6 11:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wolf
I can tell the stories, I just can't attach names to them.

I've posted several here, but I keep losing them. I thought they were titled "Tales from the Nuthouse", but I tried searching and can't find it.
Found them. While looking for something else entirely.

Nut Story


Slartibartfast  Sunday May 9 02:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Beestie
Sounds good but why is one million miles away better than an earth orbit? The chance that it will never require service is, imho, quite low - especially with a mirror that has to unfold after it arrives at the final point.
The Webb needs to shield its infrared detectors from the glare of the earth, that why it needs the distance.

And it is designed not to be serviced, but this means it is not expected to last as long as the Hubble. We just have to hope it gets there and works, no chance to go up and fix it.

jd, really good website. BTW, it mentions the James Webb but calls it by its old name, the Next Generation Space Telescope.


Tomas Rueda  Monday May 10 03:15 PM

that's kind of offset.

ex. {Las Vegas}(Son>hey, dad!, look I bought a new Ferrari!
Father> umh, cool. where are you going?
Son> to the desert. Im going to see the stars.
Father> do you have tools?
Son> no
Father> extra gas
Son> no
Father> Do you have money?
Son> no, Ive spended it on the car.
Father> And you are going to the desert?
Son> {chuckles dumbly} uh...Yeah, isn't great? Want to ride with me?
Father> may be later.
Son> oh well, you loose. see ya. {screeches out of view}



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