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   Undertoad  Wednesday Jan 5 11:07 AM

1/5/2005: Tsunami survivor



Someone noticed that there hadn't been one image of the tsunami on IotD. That's on purpose. I've seen a lot of images - a TON of them really. But none has been IotD-worthy. Most of them are pretty sick and the point of IotD, to me, is to be mind-boggling without being outright sick or porn or such. If you want images of about a hundred dead bodies floating in a harbor, you can find them if that's what you care to see.

But if you care to see someone alive, mind-bogglingly alive, here it is.

This is Acehnese Rizal Shahputra, the luckiest man in the world, as seen from the deck of a container ship. He is floating on a bunch of debris. He has been floating on this debris for EIGHT DAYS. He was rescued earlier today.

Like a lot of others from Banda Aceh, he was swept out to sea... way out. In horror, he watched as others swept out couldn't manage and disappeared. And he floated.

"At first, there were some friends with me," Rizal told reporters. "After a few days, they were gone... I saw bodies left and right."



He survived by drinking rainwater and banging open coconuts with a door latch that he found.

full story 1 full story 2



xant  Wednesday Jan 5 11:52 AM

So many things should have killed him. Sunburn and dehydration usually combine to get you first. Then starvation if you somehow survive those. Not to mention the freakin' tsunami waves and everything they brought with them.

Do they believe in Satan over there? He must have made a deal.



xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Jan 5 12:53 PM

Maybe he knows Tatsuya Ishida, Xant.



Elspode  Wednesday Jan 5 01:31 PM

I don't know if being washed 100 miles out to sea by a tidal wave qualifies one as the luckiest man on earth or not. I would be willing to accept the notion that he had first been very unlucky, then very lucky, I think.



Happy Monkey  Wednesday Jan 5 01:47 PM

So you're saying it's a wash?



404Error  Wednesday Jan 5 01:52 PM

...or it all comes out in the wash.



BigV  Wednesday Jan 5 03:16 PM

So is that absolute luckiness (sp?!) or relative luckiness?



Elspode  Wednesday Jan 5 03:26 PM

If this guy had relatives, I'm pretty sure they were even unluckier than he.



Griff  Wednesday Jan 5 03:34 PM

Good thing he wore a yellow shirt. I wonder if life is sweeter or more bitter now?

edit -Nice call UT. Stories of hope and triumph are whats needed.



Brown Thrasher  Wednesday Jan 5 07:34 PM

I feel sure the people set in their belief of evolution; would say this man was very lucky. I also believe the people who firmly believe in the theory of creation would say he was definetly blessed by "God". As, a person who was firmly taught christianity was the one and only way, I do hope the latter is true. Sometimes, I feel education; especially formal education can be very detriemental to simple people like me. Once, as a boy I really believed I saw Santa Clause flying through the air. For whatever reason, I am very happy for this paticular positve image of one of the worst natural disasters ever. God bless him and all the people who have died an suffered in this terrible event.
Thank you for the positive image. I've seen all the negative possible in the media. Maybe, some scientist trying to teach everyone about evolution being the factual theory; could figure out a way to warn people when a Tsuanami is
coming. At least then they might have time to decide about their final beliefs concerning the hereafter.



capnhowdy  Wednesday Jan 5 08:15 PM

tsunami.........do I need a condom?



Troubleshooter  Wednesday Jan 5 09:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
I feel sure the people set in their belief of evolution; would say this man was very lucky.
Then you clearly don't know what you're talking about. They would say that he was particularly well adapted, or "fit" to survive. He survived because he was able to collect rainwater and harvest coconuts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
Sometimes, I feel education; especially formal education can be very detriemental to simple people like me.
No, such a formal education would be impossible to you if you were so simple as you claim. A formal education would only be an impediment if you allow it to clutter how you think to the point that you are unable to think at all. One of the greatest instructors I've ever had was a very lucid and insightul priest who was my ethics teacher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
Once, as a boy I really believed I saw Santa Clause flying through the air.
That's because it is a fantasy. A fantasy that people eventually out grow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
Maybe, some scientist trying to teach everyone about evolution being the factual theory; could figure out a way to warn people when a Tsuanami is coming.
Funny thing about that idea, it's been tossed around for a while, but one of the biggest hurdles seems to be the fact that a lot of that part of the world is unable to accept rapid communication and then unable to implement it should they get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
At least then they might have time to decide about their final beliefs concerning the hereafter.
Isn't the premise supposed to be that you shouldn't have to worry about a warning? Isn't your state of grace supposed to be in a constant state of question?


xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Jan 5 11:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspode
I don't know if being washed 100 miles out to sea by a tidal wave qualifies one as the luckiest man on earth or not. I would be willing to accept the notion that he had first been very unlucky, then very lucky, I think.
Well, he was lucky he only made 100 miles in 8 days. He could have been much further away....out of the shipping lanes.


Torrere  Thursday Jan 6 03:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
I feel sure the people set in their belief of evolution; would say this man was very lucky. I also believe the people who firmly believe in the theory of creation would say he was definetly blessed by "God".
He was very lucky to have been blessed by God while God allowed some 150000 people to die around him.


Brown Thrasher  Thursday Jan 6 03:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
Then you clearly don't know what you're talking about. They would say that he was particularly well adapted, or "fit" to survive. He survived because he was able to collect rainwater and harvest coconuts.



No, such a formal education would be impossible to you if you were so simple as you claim. A formal education would only be an impediment if you allow it to clutter how you think to the point that you are unable to think at all. One of the greatest instructors I've ever had was a very lucid and insightul priest who was my ethics teacher.



That's because it is a fantasy. A fantasy that people eventually out grow.



Funny thing about that idea, it's been tossed around for a while, but one of the biggest hurdles seems to be the fact that a lot of that part of the world is unable to accept rapid communication and then unable to implement it should they get it.



Isn't the premise supposed to be that you shouldn't have to worry about a warning? Isn't your state of grace supposed to be in a constant state of question?
First of all, thanks for enlightning me on my lack of understanding of the evolution theory. However, the creationist would probably say he was saved by the grace of God. I was also taught ethics and logic, but I was taught by a self proclaimed agnostic. What I meant, as you clearly misunderstood my point was that for the most part people with more education have a problem with the whole concept of God. This happens to have been proven by surveys for many years. Your quite right, for the most part people do grow oui of childhood fantasies; they just endeavor into adult fantasies which are usually more detrimental. I'm sure people in that part of the world are able to communicate well, and if not maybe scientist from all over the world should give it a little effort. You lost me on the premise of grace. I never said I thought he was saved by the grace of God. I just was making the point that I'm sure the evolutionist and creationist probably have totally different views on what provided this gentleman with such good fortune.


garnet  Thursday Jan 6 09:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
What I meant, as you clearly misunderstood my point was that for the most part people with more education have a problem with the whole concept of God. This happens to have been proven by surveys for many years.
Wow, that's a big generalization. And what specific surveys are you referring to? Just curious.


Troubleshooter  Thursday Jan 6 10:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
However, the creationist would probably say he was saved by the grace of God.
I don't have a problem with that at all. It's just a more fair point to stick with what you appear to know more about, creationism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
What I meant, as you clearly misunderstood my point was that for the most part people with more education have a problem with the whole concept of God.
I don't see why. There is one scientist who I'll paraphrase as saying that a little knowledge leads a man away from God and a little more brings him back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
This happens to have been proven by surveys for many years.
Cite please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
I'm sure people in that part of the world are able to communicate well, and if not maybe scientist from all over the world should give it a little effort.
Except for the tourist areas, those were some of the least developed parts of the world over there.

As far as a little effort is concerned, shouldn't they give it a little effort as well? The only impact this tragedy has on America is on its pocket book because of all of the aid that is being sent over there and all of the personel being diverted over there.

Their government has a little responsibility as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
You lost me on the premise of grace. I never said I thought he was saved by the grace of God.
My point was in referrence to your statement about his misfortune causing him to question the state of his faith. More specifically that you sould always be maintaining the strentgth of your faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
I just was making the point that I'm sure the evolutionist and creationist probably have totally different views on what provided this gentleman with such good fortune.
I'd be willing to admit that some of the two groups may disagree, but there are those who don't dismiss the other option as well. There are evolutionists who believe in God.

It might do you some good to jump to the creation v evolution thread.


magilla  Thursday Jan 6 12:44 PM

Brown Thrasher,

Your statement indicates that you have a profound misunderstanding of evolution, and a terribly limited view of religion. First and foremost, you would force everyone into a false dilemma of evolution vs. religion, as though evolution is the same as atheism. The real dilemma is that of evolution vs. some small subset of religion that mainstream sects, like Roman Catholicism and most Protestant groups totally reject. The fact is that evolution makes no statement about God, gods, or religion. Most people- especially in the United States- who accept evolution also believe in God. Evolution is a natural phenomenon, and thus occupies a completely separate domain from religion, which is perforce supernatural.

If you wish to discuss this sort of thing further, I cordially invite you to the Usenet newsgroup, talk.origins. For more information about evolution than you can shake a stick at, try www.talkorigins.org.



xoxoxoBruce  Thursday Jan 6 05:48 PM

I thought that the bone of contention was not whether things evolve, but what the starting point was, the "Garden" or the "Ooze".



Happy Monkey  Thursday Jan 6 06:08 PM

There are bones in the process as well, such as OnyxCougar's claim that evolution can't "create information".



Troubleshooter  Thursday Jan 6 06:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
There are bones in the process as well, such as OnyxCougar's claim that evolution can't "create information".
I'd like to see a definition of what "creating information" is in the opinion of OC.


capnhowdy  Thursday Jan 6 08:28 PM

Hell- at least they were smart enough that they fired the Chief weather forecaster.
I'd hate to be in that sumbitch's shoes- physically and emotionally



capnhowdy  Thursday Jan 6 08:32 PM

I thought for a moment this was the philosophy thread.



footfootfoot  Thursday Jan 6 10:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garnet
Wow, that's a big generalization. And what specific surveys are you referring to? Just curious.
Garnet,
Tell me you are unaware of that torrent, nay veritable tsunami, of highly scientific and accurate surveys which have issued forth from that prestigious bastion of erudition the University of Diamond Match.

I'm shocked. Shocked.



Torrere  Thursday Jan 6 11:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
I'd like to see a definition of what "creating information" is in the opinion of OC.
I believe that OC's definition of "creating information" is in the same class as Athena springing fully formed from the head of Zeus. From the labyrinth I've explored on AiG [the wellspring of her belief] it looks like she would not accept the 'creation of information' unless the complete set of genes for a modern human brain were inserted into the genome of a squid, by the hand of God.


Brown Thrasher  Friday Jan 7 01:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
I don't have a problem with that at all. It's just a more fair point to stick with what you appear to know more about, creationism.



I don't see why. There is one scientist who I'll paraphrase as saying that a little knowledge leads a man away from God and a little more brings him back.



Cite please?



Except for the tourist areas, those were some of the least developed parts of the world over there.

As far as a little effort is concerned, shouldn't they give it a little effort as well? The only impact this tragedy has on America is on its pocket book because of all of the aid that is being sent over there and all of the personel being diverted over there.

Their government has a little responsibility as well.



My point was in referrence to your statement about his misfortune causing him to question the state of his faith. More specifically that you sould always be maintaining the strentgth of your faith.



I'd be willing to admit that some of the two groups may disagree, but there are those who don't dismiss the other option as well. There are evolutionists who believe in God.

It might do you some good to jump to the creation v evolution thread.
I have been to that thread and expressed my opinion. The point I was making was correlated into the thread concerning the tsunami. I feel that people continuing to argue the point of creation vs. evolution has been exhausting.
We all know there will not be a clearly factual consensus on that issue.
People will continue to argue there points concerning evolution vs. creationism
until the end of time. I disagree that the only way this disaster effected America was from their pocket book. I have been lead to believe that at least twenty Americans were killed in this tragedy. I may be being mislead but from what I've heard there countries have been doing eveything possible to withstand the devastatioin. Wilhelm Reich said: "Most intellectual people do not believe in God, but they fear him just the same."


Brown Thrasher  Friday Jan 7 02:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by magilla
Brown Thrasher,

Your statement indicates that you have a profound misunderstanding of evolution, and a terribly limited view of religion. First and foremost, you would force everyone into a false dilemma of evolution vs. religion, as though evolution is the same as atheism. The real dilemma is that of evolution vs. some small subset of religion that mainstream sects, like Roman Catholicism and most Protestant groups totally reject. The fact is that evolution makes no statement about God, gods, or religion. Most people- especially in the United States- who accept evolution also believe in God. Evolution is a natural phenomenon, and thus occupies a completely separate domain from religion, which is perforce supernatural.

If you wish to discuss this sort of thing further, I cordially invite you to the Usenet newsgroup, talk.origins. For more information about evolution than you can shake a stick at, try www.talkorigins.org.
Magilla, I may have a limited view of evolution. However, I studied world religions extensively in a formal setting. I do not think I am forcing anyone into any dilemmas concerning this argument. As a matter of fact, I try not to force anthing on anyone. I definetly Would not expess to anyone that the creation theory was right. I also would not express to anyone that the evolution theory is correct. I do become annoyed when people feel they do know the answer to the question. I am not qualified to answer the question as you or anyone else is not in my opinion. However, I do disagree concerning mainstream religions such as catholicism and protestants. I think my understanding of your statement was that these two major religions in America believe in evolution as the correct view of the world as we know it.
As you probably know, the "christians" believe the world was created in seven days by God. Thus, if they believe in evolution they must be having a hard time instilling this into their brains. It appears there would have to be some kind of enternal fight within their belief systems. I do not believe anthing is black or white; for lack of better words. I feel everyone should have their on beliefs and should not infringe them on others when it comes to religion. So, are you sure the belief in evolution, as an absolute truth is not a form of a lack of belief in a omnipotent being?


magilla  Friday Jan 7 05:04 PM

Brown Thrasher,

I am afraid I have to point out that you are indeed creating a false dilemma, in that you would have people choose between Christianity and evolution, when the choice is totally unecessary. You also seem to be presenting a logical fallacy known as "No True Scotsman". If you aren't familiar with it, it runs something like this:

Angus: Laddie, what are ye doin'? No Scotsman puts cream in his porridge!
Ian: But Angus, there's Uncle William, and he's putting cream in HIS porridge!
Angus: Ladde, no TRUE Scotsman puts cream in his porridge!

Your statement that "Christians" believe in a 7-day creation smacks of this. In fact, the vast majority of the world's christians accept that Genesis is an allegory, rather than historical fact. (I won't even go into the fact that Genesis contains two contradictory creation stories.) Evolution is *not* an absolute truth- not the way you mean it. It is a real, natural process that has been studied, observed, documented, and recreated in controlled laboratory settings. The truth is that populations evolve- there cannot be argument there. The "theory" of evolution that causes all the problem is common descent- but bear in mind that all the problems are political problems, and there is no controversy in the scientific community when it comes to evolution (I feel safe saying that, since I am a biologist). As to "knowing the answer to the question"--well, scientists, generally don't deal in that kind of absolute. We collect and evaluate data, and parse out what constitutes valid evidence and what doesn't. I am sorry if this doesn't fit with your worldview, but all the evidence is on the side of evolution, and none on the part of science. In fact, large parts of Genesis (like the Noachian Deluge) have been conclusively disproven, by multiple fields.

But religion is not the province of science. Biology in general, and evolutionary biology in particular, poses some problems for some peoples' religious beliefs, but most people in the world seem to reconcile the two just fine. Most people don't believe in a trickster God- one who would plant false evidence of evolution all over the planet, in an attempt to fool us. I would suggest you look up Kenneth Miller on the web- he's a biology professor at Brown University who has written exhaustively on the topic. I think you'd find his thinking interesting.



Griff  Friday Jan 7 05:16 PM

Well put, magilla.



Undertoad  Friday Jan 7 05:50 PM

Quote:
Most people don't believe in a trickster God- one who would plant false evidence of evolution all over the planet, in an attempt to fool us.
Wait, what if God exists... and he's a dick?


Brown Thrasher  Friday Jan 7 06:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by magilla
Brown Thrasher,

I am afraid I have to point out that you are indeed creating a false dilemma, in that you would have people choose between Christianity and evolution, when the choice is totally unecessary. You also seem to be presenting a logical fallacy known as "No True Scotsman". If you aren't familiar with it, it runs something like this:

Angus: Laddie, what are ye doin'? No Scotsman puts cream in his porridge!
Ian: But Angus, there's Uncle William, and he's putting cream in HIS porridge!
Angus: Ladde, no TRUE Scotsman puts cream in his porridge!

Your statement that "Christians" believe in a 7-day creation smacks of this. In fact, the vast majority of the world's christians accept that Genesis is an allegory, rather than historical fact. (I won't even go into the fact that Genesis contains two contradictory creation stories.) Evolution is *not* an absolute truth- not the way you mean it. It is a real, natural process that has been studied, observed, documented, and recreated in controlled laboratory settings. The truth is that populations evolve- there cannot be argument there. The "theory" of evolution that causes all the problem is common descent- but bear in mind that all the problems are political problems, and there is no controversy in the scientific community when it comes to evolution (I feel safe saying that, since I am a biologist). As to "knowing the answer to the question"--well, scientists, generally don't deal in that kind of absolute. We collect and evaluate data, and parse out what constitutes valid evidence and what doesn't. I am sorry if this doesn't fit with your worldview, but all the evidence is on the side of evolution, and none on the part of science. In fact, large parts of Genesis (like the Noachian Deluge) have been conclusively disproven, by multiple fields.

But religion is not the province of science. Biology in general, and evolutionary biology in particular, poses some problems for some peoples' religious beliefs, but most people in the world seem to reconcile the two just fine. Most people don't believe in a trickster God- one who would plant false evidence of evolution all over the planet, in an attempt to fool us. I would suggest you look up Kenneth Miller on the web- he's a biology professor at Brown University who has written exhaustively on the topic. I think you'd find his thinking interesting.
I don't mean to be rude, but I am not causing a false dilemma for anyone. I am absolutely not trying to get people to believe in christianity over evolution. I don't think my opinions really will cause evolution to be taking out of our classrooms ever. Again, I have never said that I believe strongly in either concept.
I think it's already been agreed upon that some christians believe in evolution. My point was that there are many who struggle with their religious beliefs where evolution is concerned. The southern baptist are taught that the bible is true word for word. Again, this is not my opinion, However, it is one that has been preached for years throughout America. I was brought up to believe the baptist theology, but I then went to school and found it very difficult to believe what I had been taught. I do not belive we have a "trickster" God. I just hope there is one, for without a God, I am afraid we will continue to evolve into destruction. Who knows, we probably will anyway.


xoxoxoBruce  Saturday Jan 8 12:23 AM

Quote:
I just hope there is one, for without a God, I am afraid we will continue to evolve into destruction.
Ah, maybe "God" is the collective hope that "something" will save us from ourselves.


wolf  Saturday Jan 8 01:05 AM

Bruce is wise. All hail Bruce!



Troubleshooter  Saturday Jan 8 05:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
I just hope there is one, for without a God, I am afraid we will continue to evolve into destruction. Who knows, we probably will anyway.
Careful what you say there. Is that a contradiction or heresy?


Brown Thrasher  Saturday Jan 8 06:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
Careful what you say there. Is that a contradiction or heresy?
You tell me. I have no idea what your talking about. A condridiction to what?
How can it be heresy, if you have made it quite clear, as I have; that I have no firm belief in any paticular theory. I guess you are contiuning with the evolution vs. creation theory. I've let that go. I'll pass from now on to more enlightened people as Yourself....However, I assure you I will not be careful in what I say. I take that back, when you evolve into a person, who realizes at times he is just trying to flex his intellectual abilities???? I will spend more time in trying to understand what made you so omnipotent. At the moment, I could care less what you think. I respect and become sick at your relentlessness in being correct in your views!!!!!!!!!!


capnhowdy  Saturday Jan 8 06:38 PM

anyone care for a game of chess? I've got chow deboot!



xoxoxoBruce  Saturday Jan 8 10:25 PM

Quote:
However, I assure you I will not be careful in what I say.
Bravo, bravo. I like that attitude.


Troubleshooter  Saturday Jan 8 11:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Thrasher
At the moment, I could care less what you think. I respect and become sick at your relentlessness in being correct in your views!!!!!!!!!!
Relax, I left off the smiley by accident. The reason I mentioned being careful was in referrence to the scores of literalist evangelicals out there.


Roosta  Sunday Jan 9 01:03 PM

Blimey, the red smilies are getting a good airing today!!



Roosta  Sunday Jan 9 01:07 PM

Anyways, have a couple of pictures.



Troubleshooter  Sunday Jan 9 01:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roosta
Anyways, have a couple of pictures.
Those pictures remind me of the running of the bulls.

Running away smiling at something that has the power to crush you flat. Or in other words, stupid.

Are tsunamis so commonplace that people stand around watching them?


xoxoxoBruce  Sunday Jan 9 02:56 PM

Those pictures are of a tidal bore in China.



Troubleshooter  Sunday Jan 9 03:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce
Those pictures are of a tidal bore in China.
Thats cool, sort of a catastrophe for beginners. "This thing is small now, but when it gets to be full grow crikey!"


Roosta  Sunday Jan 9 04:27 PM

I was sent the pics in a mail that said they were from Dec '04. Thanks for pointing out the glaring error, I hadn't really noticed those people at the front that looked like they're having a right laugh!



Clodfobble  Sunday Jan 9 05:43 PM

That's not a tidal wave, that's just the world's biggest pile of loose-fill attic insulation. And those people are laughing because the people who got buried underneath it are going to itch from fiberglass cuts for days.



wolf  Sunday Jan 9 08:54 PM

There are several sets of pictures that everyone has been sending me lately that I have to send back with a link to a snopes article ...

They are still cool pictures, though.



footfootfoot  Tuesday Jan 11 09:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clodfobble
That's not a tidal wave, that's just the world's biggest pile of loose-fill attic insulation. And those people are laughing because the people who got buried underneath it are going to itch from fiberglass cuts for days.
FACTOID:
dousing yourself with baby powder prior to fiberglassing will clog your pores so the fiberglass doesn't get in. Then wash with COOL, NOT HOT, water and soap.

I always tell that to the high school kids before tehy fiberglass for me. I won't touch the stuff


Undertoad  Wednesday Jan 12 02:29 PM

Followup: another guy lived out at sea even longer! He managed by finding a raft:



In this photo released by the Arab-based container vessel Al Yamamah, a raft carrying tsunami survivor, Indonesian Ari Afrizal, drifts on the sea Sunday, Jan. 9, 2005 before being rescued and brought to the West Port, outskirts of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Ari, 21, says he drifted on the Indian Ocean for two weeks, living on coconuts that he pried open with his teeth while floating on pieces of wood, then a broken boat, and finally a fishing raft.



CharlieG  Wednesday Jan 12 03:23 PM

They Missed when he found the Contaniner ship - Keep him away from the USS Lincoln - he might upgrade again!



OnyxCougar  Sunday Jan 16 03:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torrere
I believe that OC's definition of "creating information" is in the same class as Athena springing fully formed from the head of Zeus. From the labyrinth I've explored on AiG [the wellspring of her belief] it looks like she would not accept the 'creation of information' unless the complete set of genes for a modern human brain were inserted into the genome of a squid, by the hand of God.
The bottom line is that there are MANY functions of the human body that simply don't work without corresponding parts. Evolution would require all those parts to evolve at exactly the same time to function. This is highly improbable at best, if you buy into the "duplication" theory of "adding information."

And you still haven't explained how non life became life.

Quote:
From the labyrinth I've explored on AiG [the wellspring of her belief] it looks like she would not accept
Many of the theories I have posted are from AiG because they are one of a very few sites that do not compromise (IE Hugh Ross) their belief in biblical inerrancy just to fit man's fallible ideas. However, although I do rely heavily on the data, research and scientists that post on AiG, it is NOT the "wellspring of [my] belief".

Please do not try to speak for me, or in this case, assert where my beliefs spring from. You are not qualified to do so. I am perfectly capable of speaking for myself.


Happy Monkey  Monday Jan 17 08:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxCougar
The bottom line is that there are MANY functions of the human body that simply don't work without corresponding parts. Evolution would require all those parts to evolve at exactly the same time to function.
No it wouldn't. The current state of the human body is what it looks like after the corresponding parts have been working together for a long time. They haven't needed to work alone for long enough that they no longer can. And their function, when they worked alone, may not have been quite what their current function is.


capnhowdy  Monday Jan 17 05:40 PM

quote:"Followup: another guy lived out at sea even longer! He managed by finding a raft:" ( Undertoad)

What an unbelievably lucky person.
What are the odds of being hit by a tsunami, surviving that, and just when you need it most, you "find" a raft. Wow........................



Troubleshooter  Monday Jan 17 06:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by capnhowdy
What are the odds of being hit by a tsunami, surviving that, and just when you need it most, you "find" a raft. Wow........................
Apparently good enough that it happened.

Say it with me now: "Luck is just function chance."


xoxoxoBruce  Monday Jan 17 09:17 PM

Considering the thousands that didn't find a raft I'd say the odds are pretty slim.



capnhowdy  Monday Jan 17 09:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
Apparently good enough that it happened.

Say it with me now: "Luck is just function chance."

Ideally correct. "Luck is just function chance." [/quote]
The one who found the raft was "lucky". In a good way.

The 150,000 others that didn't- well they were "lucky" , too.........
.........in a bad way.
IMHO:
LUCK: what happens to you.
Luck should be (if it isn't) a slang word, which is to say , it could change it's definition from mind to mind; culture to culture.
Actually the term should, in all logical angles, be replaced with fate, or destiny.
One has no control as to the results of some situations, while others we can & do decide. The ones we can alter are in no way connected with luck. The ones we can....... well term it yourself. "Luck" works for me.
It's kind of like a global term.
Myself; I'm probably the unluckiest lucky sumbitch on this planet.
Luck can be bad. It can be good. In the end, it is all still "luck".



404Error  Monday Jan 17 11:46 PM

My father always used to say, "If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all."

Capn, maybe the word you're looking for is 'lot', as in 'your lot in life'.

Quote:
lot, n ...3: your overall circumstances or condition in life (including everything that happens to you); "whatever my fortune may be"; "deserved a better fate"; "has a happy lot"; "the luck of the Irish"; "a victim of circumstances"; "success that was her portion" [syn: fortune, destiny, fate, luck, circumstances, portion]



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