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   Undertoad  Saturday Jan 22 11:34 AM

1/22/2005: Bloody animal sacrifice



It's framed with some sort of metal fence decoration, but what we're seeing here is animal sacrifice in Pakistan, observing the first day of the Muslim festival of Eid al-Adha. The caption says the religious celebration marks Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son in a show of obedience to God.

Foul!



Troubleshooter  Saturday Jan 22 12:22 PM

Everytime I think I may be falling for the whole islam is a religion of peace, islam is this, islam is that I get handed big glass of wake the fuck up.



404Error  Saturday Jan 22 12:32 PM

Not to condone such a gruesome display, but if you read about Eid-Al-Adha, you find at least they actually eat the animals they're killing here.

Quote:
Because God spared Ishmael, substituting a sheep in his stead, Muslims commemorate this occasion by slaughtering an animal and distributing its meat among family, friends and the needy as a special act of charity for the occasion. Because of this, many poor Muslims are able to enjoy the unusual luxury of eating meat during the four days of the festival.
Still pretty disgusting though.


Relisnhoj  Saturday Jan 22 01:45 PM

As long as they actually eat the meat I don't have a problem with it...I think. I agree that it is pretty gruesome looking, but I’ve seen the insides of a meal locker, it’s much, much worse than this. Anyone know how the animals are “sacrificed”? If they are chased around the square and beaten to death with clubs, then yeah, major problem, and I don't care if it's dinner or not. Besides that, you should be nice to your dinner, no one wants the ghost of a dead cow haunting your stomach while you digest it's body, I don't want to know what kind of cramps that would cause.



wolf  Saturday Jan 22 02:49 PM

The ghosts of dead cows are often in your stomach, no matter how they are slaughtered.

Depending on your relationship with the dead cow's ghost, you get either farts or explosive diarrhea.



Trilby  Saturday Jan 22 04:21 PM

I have real big issues with the whole Abraham thing. I think Abraham was, to put it mildly, a freaking weird-o who did things that he'd be locked up for if he did them today (example: most people agree that a man who performs home-surgery or "modifications" on his own penis needs professional help) and his God seems particularly brutal. I've always hated the story of Abraham leading his innocent son (and, BTW, there is controversy about which son it was. Was it Sarah's son, Isaac, or Hagar's son, Ishmael? Big controversy over that!) to slaughter. Disgusting, even as an allegory. No wonder I reject Christianity in particular and the Abrahamic faiths in general.



Relisnhoj  Saturday Jan 22 04:23 PM

You know, it's conversations like this that convince ignorant people to become vegitarians, and condemn us meat eaters. I have a friend who is a rancher, thousands of acres of lands, even more cattle, and his daughter is a vegetarian. I don't get it.



capnhowdy  Saturday Jan 22 06:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
Everytime I think I may be falling for the whole islam is a religion of peace, islam is this, islam is that I get handed big glass of wake the fuck up.
I couldn't have said it as good; let alone better......Well put!


capnhowdy  Saturday Jan 22 07:07 PM

(example: most people agree that a man who performs home-surgery or "modifications" on his own penis needs professional help)

Modifications? I'm interested. heehee......
Right about needing professional help, too. One should NEVER attempt an operation like this alone................



xoxoxoBruce  Saturday Jan 22 09:13 PM

Blood pudding.



capnhowdy  Saturday Jan 22 11:49 PM

I was thinking: how do they intend to clean this mess up?
Oh well- no problem:



Trilby  Sunday Jan 23 01:44 AM




Beestie  Sunday Jan 23 01:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
Everytime I think I may be falling for the whole islam is a religion of peace...
Whew, that was close!


Troubleshooter  Sunday Jan 23 02:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beestie
Whew, that was close!
You're telling me bub. At least our zealots have limited their killing to children and abortion doctors.


wah  Sunday Jan 23 03:10 AM

if you think this says something about Islam, go up to Greeley, CO sometime and see how our Fast Food Nation does the whole slaughter thing. Mmmm, pools of cowshit...



York  Sunday Jan 23 03:28 AM

Oh well, its a religious thing .... they kill the animals by cutting a major vain and let it bleed to death i think....a bit Al-Zarqaoui style!!
The seals that are killed dont have anything to do with religion and are killed much wurse....



Troubleshooter  Sunday Jan 23 12:12 PM

I think that the big issue is the contradiction in the situation, not the fact that we americans are a bunch of venal gluttons.



Troubleshooter  Sunday Jan 23 04:28 PM

Bush weighs in on the holiday...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0020221-4.html

I wonder if he's seen our expose?

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
February 21, 2002

President Commemorates Eid al-Adha

I am pleased to send warm greetings to Muslims across the United States as you celebrate the Eid al-Adha holiday.

As you join in spirit with those gathered in Mecca to observe the traditions of one of your most sacred feasts, may you share joyful and reverent fellowship with family and friends.

During this special time, our Nation is reminded of the remarkable contributions of American Muslims to our history, culture, and way of life. Our spiritual foundation and common heritage will continue to guide us as we strive to strengthen our country and advance peace and goodness in our world.

Laura joins me in sending our best wishes for a joyous observance.

GEORGE W. BUSH

# # #



Troubleshooter  Sunday Jan 23 04:39 PM

I had an idea...



plus



equals

A self solving problem.



garnet  Sunday Jan 23 11:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relisnhoj
You know, it's conversations like this that convince ignorant people to become vegitarians, and condemn us meat eaters. I have a friend who is a rancher, thousands of acres of lands, even more cattle, and his daughter is a vegetarian. I don't get it.
I do. The daughter gets to see this stuff first hand and knows exactly what's going on. Logical choice on her part.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wah
if you think this says something about Islam, go up to Greeley, CO sometime and see how our Fast Food Nation does the whole slaughter thing. Mmmm, pools of cowshit...
Aint that the truth. Stuff that goes on in slaughterhouses in the good ol' "Christian" USA is way worse than what's in this picture. The only difference is you don't see it until it's neatly shrink-wrapped at the meat counter.


MAdMoNKEY  Monday Jan 24 06:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garnet
The only difference is you don't see it until it's neatly shrink-wrapped at the meat counter.
I agree. At least the Muslims in the picture are exposed to where their meat is coming from--they understand what's involved, whether or not that affects their appreciation for their food or their eating habits. Us Americans on the other hand are shielded from all the gruesomeness--so much so that our first reaction is to cast stones at the "heathen" Muslims. I don't think we mean to be hypocritical, we're just not exposed to these kinds of facts of life.


capnhowdy  Monday Jan 24 08:25 AM

["Us Americans on the other hand are shielded from all the gruesomeness--so much so that our first reaction is to cast stones at the "heathen" Muslims. I don't think we mean to be hypocritical, we're just not exposed to these kinds of facts of life."] QUOTE

Isn't that called "civilization"?



garnet  Monday Jan 24 09:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by capnhowdy

Isn't that called "civilization"?
Huh? So are you saying that these Muslims aren't "civilized"?

There's just as much ugliness in the US, but it takes place behind closed doors. I don't think that makes us more "civilized" than anyone else.


CharlieG  Monday Jan 24 10:20 AM

Hey, not all of us think meat comes in shrink wrap. Believe it or not (and agree with him or not) Ted Nugent's cook book "Kill it and Grill it" has this as one of it's major points. If you are NOT a vegitarian, if you are NOT killing it yourself, someone is doing it for you, and if your not willing to face up to that fact, your being intellectually dishonest with yourself.

Me? Yep - people kill most of my food for me, but I do kill some of it for myself - the "Ultimate" in "Free range" - hunting - where the animal can get away (In fact I did NOT get one this year). And yes, I do my own butchering, and preserving (Mostly freezing)



garnet  Monday Jan 24 10:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieG
Believe it or not (and agree with him or not) Ted Nugent's cook book "Kill it and Grill it" has this as one of it's major points.
I wouldn't be so quick to canonize Mr. Nugent. He brags about playing tapes of pigs screaming at slaughter--because he enjoys the sound of it. Sick fuck, if you ask me. And yes, I'm a vegan.


Troubleshooter  Monday Jan 24 10:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garnet
Huh? So are you saying that these Muslims aren't "civilized"?
There are degrees of civilization.

And as to canonizing Ted Nugent, the Nuge is first and foremost a showman. I'd bet money that he was saying that just to see what people would say, the same as he's been doing since the '70s.

You being a grazer is not going to come as any great surprise to anyone.


CharlieG  Monday Jan 24 02:08 PM

Cannonize? Nope - but he does have a point (and some good recipies)

Think I'll go home and make some venison chili tonight (yum)



garnet  Monday Jan 24 03:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieG
Think I'll go home and make some venison chili tonight (yum)
ZZZZZZZZZZZ

Maybe you should go back to telling math jokes....


404Error  Monday Jan 24 04:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garnet
Huh? So are you saying that these Muslims aren't "civilized"?

civ·i·lized
adj.

1. Having a highly developed society and culture.
2. Showing evidence of moral and intellectual advancement; humane, ethical, and reasonable: terrorist acts that shocked the civilized world.
3. Marked by refinement in taste and manners; cultured; polished.

I don't believe hacking off someone's head with a machete fits the definition of civilized....nor does what these Muslims are doing in this picture.


lookout123  Monday Jan 24 05:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garnet
And yes, I'm a vegan.
oh great, not just vegetarian, but vegan now?


Happy Monkey  Monday Jan 24 05:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 404Error
I don't believe hacking off someone's head with a machete fits the definition of civilized....nor does what these Muslims are doing in this picture.
I'd pick beheading over electrocution if I had to be executed.


Troubleshooter  Monday Jan 24 07:33 PM

You can pick it all you want. It's the ones who don't pick it that are the problem.



CharlieG  Monday Jan 24 07:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garnet
ZZZZZZZZZZZ

Maybe you should go back to telling math jokes....
Nah, I'll go back to cooking MEAT

But vegetarians are cool - in fact almost all meat I eat was a vegetarian....


garnet  Monday Jan 24 07:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 404Error
I don't believe hacking off someone's head with a machete fits the definition of civilized....nor does what these Muslims are doing in this picture.
As I'm sure you realize, not all Muslims are responsible for the behaedings in the Middle East. You or I make not like or understand the culture and/or religious practices of other people (I'm sickened by the pictures of the sacrificed animals) but that doesn't make these people "uncivilized."

Quote:
Originally Posted by lookout123
oh great, not just vegetarian, but vegan now?
Yep, at least for the last couple years. And I'm quite impressed you know the difference...there's hope for you yet. Heh heh heh


garnet  Monday Jan 24 07:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieG
Nah, I'll go back to cooking MEAT

But vegetarians are cool - in fact almost all meat I eat was a vegetarian....
Gee, never heard that one before. You're a funny guy! Are ya sure you don't have any more math jokes?


Happy Monkey  Tuesday Jan 25 12:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
You can pick it all you want. It's the ones who don't pick it that are the problem.
Is that the civilized way? Allow the condemned to choose their method of execution?

I'm more concerned that the hostages were killed than I am about the method.


Trilby  Tuesday Jan 25 12:30 AM

I think "How Would You Want to Be Executed?" is a good idea for a new thread...I'll go first.

I'd like to be fucked to death.



404Error  Tuesday Jan 25 01:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianna
I think "How Would You Want to Be Executed?" is a good idea for a new thread...I'll go first.

I'd like to be fucked to death.

Okay. We'll hack off your arms and legs and leave you in the middle of a desert.

Now you're fucked.


Trilby  Tuesday Jan 25 01:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 404Error
Okay. We'll hack off your arms and legs and leave you in the middle of a desert.

Now you're fucked.

You know, that's not really what I had in mind. Just trying to turn the bloody animal thing-y into a sex orgy. Sorry.


MAdMoNKEY  Tuesday Jan 25 02:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianna
You know, that's not really what I had in mind. Just trying to turn the bloody animal thing-y into a sex orgy. Sorry.
Hey Brianna I'm rooting for you!


xoxoxoBruce  Tuesday Jan 25 05:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianna
I think "How Would You Want to Be Executed?" is a good idea for a new thread...I'll go first.

I'd like to be fucked to death.
Uh...er...the newspaper said Virginia Pipeline....not Pipolini.


Sved  Tuesday Jan 25 07:40 AM

Quote:
I don't believe hacking off someone's head with a machete fits the definition of civilized....nor does what these Muslims are doing in this picture.
Yes, it's surely better to bomb cities with tanks and planes... It's much more clean, efficient, and showable on tv ...


404Error  Tuesday Jan 25 08:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sved
Yes, it's surely better to bomb cities with tanks and planes... It's much more clean, efficient, and showable on tv ...

Warfare, in general, is a dirty business but civilized people have set up guidelines in the Geneva conventions as to what is and is not acceptable. Shooting an enemy with a FMJ bullet is concidered acceptable, i.e. clean, efficient and not meant to cause undue pain and suffering. Hacking off heads with machetes is not acceptable.


glatt  Tuesday Jan 25 08:51 AM

But the US government doesn't follow the Geneva Conventions anymore. They are "quaint." Remember? We torture prisoners of war.

Does that mean we are uncivilized in your book?



Happy Monkey  Tuesday Jan 25 09:29 AM

And even if we did apply Geneva, the "dirty business" of war is only excused if the war itself is justified.



Troubleshooter  Tuesday Jan 25 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
Is that the civilized way? Allow the condemned to choose their method of execution?

I'm more concerned that the hostages were killed than I am about the method.


What I meant was save the hacking off of heads for the people who are a part of your religion or your culture.

Otherwise join the 21st century and shoot them or something.


Troubleshooter  Tuesday Jan 25 10:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by glatt
But the US government doesn't follow the Geneva Conventions anymore. They are "quaint." Remember? We torture prisoners of war.

Does that mean we are uncivilized in your book?
Yeah, that did our credibilty a severe blow, and yes, that is an uncivilized idea.


Happy Monkey  Tuesday Jan 25 12:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
What I meant was save the hacking off of heads for the people who are a part of your religion or your culture.

Otherwise join the 21st century and shoot them or something.
The US doesn't do firing squads (except perhaps for the military) anymore, but some states still use the electric chair. Europe has no executions at all. If a European commits a crime in the US, should they be immune to the death penalty because it's not part of their culture? Should Catholics be imune to the death penalty because it's against their religion?


404Error  Tuesday Jan 25 01:09 PM

You should expect to suffer the same punishments for the crime you commited as anyone in the country you commited it in, regardless of where you hail from or your religious beliefs.

As far as the firing squad goes, two states still authorize it's use. The military does not use it.



Happy Monkey  Tuesday Jan 25 02:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 404Error
You should expect to suffer the same punishments for the crime you commited as anyone in the country you commited it in, regardless of where you hail from or your religious beliefs.
Exactly. The real issue with the hostage killings is the fact that hostages were killed, and not the method.
Quote:
As far as the firing squad goes, two states still authorize it's use. The military does not use it.
Thanks. Though, with two in my lifetime, it looks like that's on its way out.


Troubleshooter  Tuesday Jan 25 03:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
The US doesn't do firing squads (except perhaps for the military) anymore, but some states still use the electric chair. Europe has no executions at all. If a European commits a crime in the US, should they be immune to the death penalty because it's not part of their culture? Should Catholics be imune to the death penalty because it's against their religion?
Kind of a win-win situation for us when we annex the EU don't you think?


capnhowdy  Tuesday Jan 25 06:39 PM

bombing cities with tanks & planes is quite showable. Saddening, too. I suggest hand to hand with a KBAR. That way the duty (not deed) would be done by a real soldier & a true patriot, probably; thus excluding 98% of all cowards. The other 2% would be, of course, in the looney toons category.

Without war, peace would be unacheivable. The Geneva Convention is like any other rule in competition: it only works if both teams observe & abide. Prisoners of war are precisely that...... they are not guests. Remember- a second before they were taken into custody they were trying to kill you. I share the "take no prisoners" view, along with loads of others. Personally it would be the better option to be a casualty than a toy for some twisted heathen, hungry for material to further decieve their inane charges.

War being justified is probably the question of the millinium. I'm glad that call is up to the CIC & Co..... Can you imaging the results if the citizens voted on it? We would most likely be the weakest nation in the world.

THE BURNING QUESTION :
Why can't we all just get along?

POSSIBLE ANSWER :
Because we have the freedom to differ.



Happy Monkey  Tuesday Jan 25 06:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by capnhowdy
War being justified is probably the question of the millinium. I'm glad that call is up to the CIC & Co..... Can you imaging the results if the citizens voted on it? We would most likely be the weakest nation in the world.
That's crazy. The strength of a nation is defined by how eager it is to start a war?


lookout123  Tuesday Jan 25 07:25 PM

i don't think it is quite that easy HM. but if the decision to go to war was left to a general election then yes, i think the nation would be much weaker. look at how divided people can become over a "simple" decision, like who they want for president. can you imagine the dirty tricks on both sides of the aisle if the issue at hand was to go to war or not. i don't know if the general public could stomach the idea of "their" vote sending men and women to die - even if war is a necessary course of action.



Happy Monkey  Tuesday Jan 25 08:04 PM

I think public support is necessary but not sufficient when it comes to a justifiable war.



xoxoxoBruce  Tuesday Jan 25 08:21 PM

Justifiable war....hmm.....to whom? By whom? The congress? The great unwashed? The press? The money mongers? The bloggers? The UN? Allies?


God?



capnhowdy  Tuesday Jan 25 08:49 PM

["That's crazy. The strength of a nation is defined by how eager it is to start a war?"]QUOTE

__________________
On the contrary. The weakness of a nation is defined by how afraid it is to uphold their beliefs. In the areas where our troops are currently deployed would be prime examples........



wolf  Tuesday Jan 25 08:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
Should Catholics be imune to the death penalty because it's against their religion?
Catholics pretty much invented the death penalty, and cornered the market on torture at the same time ...

(Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition ...)


Happy Monkey  Tuesday Jan 25 08:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf
Catholics pretty much invented the death penalty, and cornered the market on torture at the same time ...

(Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition ...)
I suspect the death penalty is pre-civilization, never mind pre-Catholic. But the Catholics did supply considerable imagination and innovation to the field, which is probably one of the major reasons they oppose it now.


Happy Monkey  Tuesday Jan 25 08:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by capnhowdy
On the contrary. The weakness of a nation is defined by how afraid it is to uphold their beliefs. In the areas where our troops are currently deployed would be prime examples........
Could you expand on that? Which beliefs are being upheld/not upheld where our troops are currently deployed? I think you gave your ellipses too much work.


capnhowdy  Tuesday Jan 25 09:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
Could you expand on that? Which beliefs are being upheld/not upheld where our troops are currently deployed? I think you gave your ellipses too much work.
Maybe the term "belief" is innapropriate. That sort of gives it a religious/spiritual aire.....
I just feel like too much military energy is being spent (I didn't say wasted) on other countries' political problems. Sorry, didn't mean to post the "P" word.
Really...... if they were a strong country, Why are our people over there dying for them?
If America weren't such a strong country, I suppose we would have to call for help from another country to assist US in having ........., er, well.... an election or something.
I didn't see any of them tending to our ( the USA)'s affairs.
Strong: USA
Weak: The others


garnet  Tuesday Jan 25 09:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by capnhowdy
Really...... if they were a strong country, Why are our people over there dying for them?
Hmmm, did the Iraqis ASK us to come over and "help" them? I don't remember that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnhowdy
If America weren't such a strong country, I suppose we would have to call for help from another country to assist US in having ........., er, well.... an election or something.
I didn't see any of them tending to our ( the USA)'s affairs.
Huh?


Sved  Thursday Jan 27 08:37 AM

Quote:
I just feel like too much military energy is being spent (I didn't say wasted) on other countries' political problems.
Most of the iraqis must share your point of view ...


Your reply here?

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