Undertoad Monday Feb 28 03:40 PM
2/28/2005: The injured USS San Francisco
glatt Monday Feb 28 03:45 PM
I'm a little amazed that the U.S. Navy is the source of these photos. All they did for secrecy was cover secret electronics in the nose with the tarp before the pictures were taken. It's obviously a good thing the inner hull wasn't breached. This picture shows how much room there actually is between the outer hull and the inner hull.
BigV Monday Feb 28 03:45 PM
BigV Monday Feb 28 04:04 PM
Troubleshooter Monday Feb 28 04:16 PM
I don't see the sonar sphere. If the sphere isn't visible then enough of the hull wasn't compressed to reach the people tank. I'll try to find a graphic.
Troubleshooter Monday Feb 28 04:59 PM
Ok, it looks like the (crushed) pinkish cluster in the middle may be the sphere, but there is a watertight hatch between the sphere and the people tank.
Wombat Monday Feb 28 06:07 PM
Yes I'd agree that the pink bit was the sonar dome. In the hi-res pic, the green stuff looks like blocks attached to the surface behind them... maybe they're some kind of sound-deadening blocks. On Troubleshooter's diagram the big grey disk behind the sphere is probably the green block stuff in the photos.
BigV Monday Feb 28 06:23 PM
Troubleshooter Monday Feb 28 06:35 PM
Strange, I use Firefox 1.1. Of course it could be a problem because of where you're browsing from.
Torrere Monday Feb 28 06:43 PM
Seattle? The Democrats aren't THAT far out of favor!
BigV Monday Feb 28 07:32 PM
Excuse me, but you mean
Troubleshooter Monday Feb 28 07:41 PM
BigV Monday Feb 28 07:46 PM
I'm relieved to learn that the wave of version envy was just a false alarm...
xoxoxoBruce Monday Feb 28 10:40 PM
When that kind of tonnage meets an immovable object at -cough- 35 knots -cough-, there must be a lot of newly deaf fish in that area.
GruntDoc Tuesday Mar 1 02:07 AM
Wait until somebody does the math and tags this collision as the cause of the Tsunami.
Troubleshooter Tuesday Mar 1 10:32 AM
I've seen conflicting stories on the speed though. Especially considering a speed that high falls into the clearance level information.
xoxoxoBruce Tuesday Mar 1 12:03 PM
One article I read said "flank speed" in one sentence and "around 35 knots" in another. I don't know if the author was knowledgeable but it seems it was full tilt boogie right up to impact.
Troubleshooter Tuesday Mar 1 12:06 PM
Going from full tilt boogie to 0 in about 2 seconds is bad, yeah, definitely very bad, yeah, definitely...
glatt Tuesday Mar 1 12:32 PM
Imagine as you are sitting here in front of your computer, having the wall of the room suddenly and without warning fly at you at 45+ kilometers per hour. That's what it was like. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch.
hampor Tuesday Mar 1 12:49 PM
Maybe it's just my eyes, but is there a crease in the hull about a tenth of the way back?
Troubleshooter Tuesday Mar 1 01:04 PM
The San Francisco isn't an improved 688, it doesn't have the VLS installed, so there are few differences in th eimages.
Wormfood Tuesday Mar 1 01:07 PM
This proves that you can't listen where the mountains are with passive sonar
xoxoxoBruce Tuesday Mar 1 02:11 PM
I wonder if the "mountain" they hit was hard rock, volcanic rock or sand/rock mix like on mountains on land?
Troubleshooter Tuesday Mar 1 03:03 PM
tw Tuesday Mar 1 08:42 PM
The sub did not hit bottom head on. It was a glancing blow that struck the left side of the box and scrapped down the port side. Was the sub at 30 knots or 40 knots? Does not matter. It was running a high speed. Subs running at those speeds are essentially blind if they intend to operate in their primary function - stealth. And yes, there is also clear buckling in that outer hull. This boat will be out of service for quite some time.
Troubleshooter Tuesday Mar 1 09:06 PM
And trust me on this one. They aren't goint to risk a billion dollar vessel over a bill to NOAA.
tw Tuesday Mar 1 09:38 PM
Trust nothing. Even in WWII, the army moved through Europe without sufficient maps. Patton was using Michelin road maps. Why would you expect humans today to be any more responsible? Ever try to get things fixed when a failure has never happened? Every engineer said not to launch Challenger - and seven people died predictably. When decisions are being made only using money as the principle, then it would be impossible to justify the expense - especially if not demonstrated necessary by previous example. (In the FAA, its called a graveyard mentality.) Today, it would be real easy to get those maps updated now that the cost can be measured accurately on the spread sheets.
lookout123 Tuesday Mar 1 11:55 PM
and oh yeah - bush and rove remotely steered them in to the mountain. it took 7 minutes. damn mental midget.
CharlieG Wednesday Mar 2 09:42 AM
Out of service for a while? Probably forever. Considering they have been taking 688 boats out of service, they'll either bring another one back, or NOT retire one that would have been retired, and the San Fran will be made into razor blades
Troubleshooter Wednesday Mar 2 09:44 AM
How's that old line go?
xoxoxoBruce Wednesday Mar 2 07:32 PM
I guess they forgot about full tilt boogie training runs.
hampor Thursday Mar 3 01:15 PM
Would that explain sacking the Captain?
xoxoxoBruce Thursday Mar 3 09:22 PM
My understanding is it doesn't work when they run at speed because the boat makes so much noise.
Troubleshooter Thursday Mar 3 11:13 PM
It's sort of like the faster you go, closer something has to be before it becomes noticable. Think of it like trying to hear something in the car with your head out of the window.
jimbo Saturday Mar 26 06:58 PM
This is an older submarine, and did not have bow planes or vertical launch tubes. The situation could have been much different if she did.
xoxoxoBruce Saturday Mar 26 08:27 PM
Hi Jimbo, welcome to the cellar.
Elspode Sunday Mar 27 01:51 PM
I just saw a tiny piece in the KC Star Friday that said several members of a sub crew were punished for running into an underwater obstacle. Presumably, they were members of the San Francisco crew?
BrianR Monday Mar 28 11:41 AM
yes. I might have a link or story on this in the archives...I'll get back to you on it
Undertoad Thursday Mar 31 06:50 PM
Wow! Strategy Page has a new set of photos with higher-res shots including the area under the tarp.
hampor Monday May 9 12:25 PM
new report out
According to Yahoo, they've issued the report on the collision.
xoxoxoBruce Monday May 9 09:00 PM
Those "other charts" must be the satellite data I read about. They've been getting much better at looking beneath the surface with satellites.
Elspode Tuesday May 10 01:47 PM
I can hear the Captain of the vessel now...
tw Tuesday May 10 10:47 PM
tw Wednesday May 18 01:32 PM
Apparently damage to the USS San Francisco was more dangerous than was originally reported. Forward ballast tank was compromised. The boat remained stuck on the bottom, stern up, for some minutes before it finally and slowly floated to the surface. From the NY Times of 18 May 2005:
xoxoxoBruce Wednesday May 18 05:30 PM
Good find I can't imagine what it was like down there, waiting and waiting, for the ship to rise. And when it did still not knowing if they would make it.
tw Wednesday May 18 06:18 PM
Article notes that the Captain threw his command star into the grave of the sailor. A poetic expression that does say much about how the Navy works.