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   Undertoad  Tuesday Aug 16 11:14 AM

8/16/2005: Kiss, 60 years later



xoB catches this. The official caption says Carl Muscarello and Edith Shane, who claim to be the subjects in Alfred Eisenstaedt's famous VJ Day photograph, commemorate the image's 60th anniversary next to a statue of their historic kiss in New York's Times Square. But it's not an IotD without the kissers on the right.



Bullitt  Tuesday Aug 16 11:17 AM

"The times they are a changin' "



mrnoodle  Tuesday Aug 16 11:23 AM

the mic position gave me a double take as well.

i bet they already owned the sailor hats.



glatt  Tuesday Aug 16 11:25 AM

Well, HELLO sailor!



mlandman  Tuesday Aug 16 11:25 AM

attention whore



look look we're gay! See, we're gay! Everyone needs to know.... we're gay!

Nice positioning of the microphone in his hand, too.

<sigh>



bobspoon  Tuesday Aug 16 11:58 AM

Come on, we have to call bullshit on that pair of old fraudsters. I know we all shrink a bit as we get older, but the height disparity between the man and the woman is ridiculous - he's probably a foot and a half taller than her - whereas they're of the same height in the original picture.. He's taller than the sailor in the original picture by a fair way, to my eye, whereas she's gotten stumpier.

http://www.temple.edu/photo/photogra...mousworks.html

...did I mention that I was at Woodstock? And at the wall in '89...



Neurotica  Tuesday Aug 16 01:15 PM

mlandman--
So do you consider every opposite-sex couple that kisses in public to be flaunting their heterosexuality? Or is dispalying affection in public without being called an "attention whore" some sort of "right" conferred by heterosexual privilege?



Bullitt  Tuesday Aug 16 01:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspoon
Come on, we have to call bullshit on that pair of old fraudsters. I know we all shrink a bit as we get older, but the height disparity between the man and the woman is ridiculous - he's probably a foot and a half taller than her - whereas they're of the same height in the original picture.. He's taller than the sailor in the original picture by a fair way, to my eye, whereas she's gotten stumpier.
...did I mention that I was at Woodstock? And at the wall in '89...
the statue is on a pedastal.. compare the positions of the feet between the people and the statue


xant  Tuesday Aug 16 01:29 PM

Bullitt, he's not talking about their heights, he's mainly talking about their relative heights, and I see it too.

* The man appears to be taller than the man in the statue. (Is the statue accurate wrt scale in the photo?)
* The woman may or may not be shorter. It's hard to tell, and old people shrink anyway, so I'm not going to make much of that.
* The difference between their two heights is much greater.

Even accounting for shrinkage in the woman, the man appears to have gotten a lot taller. It doesn't seem like this would be such a hard thing to verify, but on the surface they don't look right.



barefoot serpent  Tuesday Aug 16 01:42 PM

is that an omnidirectional in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?



Elspode  Tuesday Aug 16 01:55 PM

I would far rather see two people kissing, regardless of gender, than something more offensive like, say, fighting, suing each other, ripping each other off. Kissing is good.

BTW...did anyone else click on this IOTD title thinking they were going to see Gene Simmons in a wheelchair?



mrnoodle  Tuesday Aug 16 02:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspode
BTW...did anyone else click on this IOTD title thinking they were going to see Gene Simmons in a wheelchair?
Me.

re: height
my dad grew several inches from the age of 20-30 (he's only 5'9" or 10" still). My brother is 29, and he grew an inch (from 6'1" to 6'2") in the last 2 years. I don't think the height discrepancy is necessarily a dealbreaker.


Happy Monkey  Tuesday Aug 16 02:19 PM

Plus, in the original photo, the sailor is bending over, so it's hard to tell exactly what the height difference is.



Karenv  Tuesday Aug 16 02:39 PM

Besides women shrink a lot more than men do- men lose bone to osteoporosis, but since they have more to begin with it rarely affects height. And women get more curvature. Plus, notice that she is wearing heels in the original and sneakers today.

And need we mention that the scupture is not a photograph even if it was done from a photograph? So some of the height differential may be due to artistic license.



Clodfobble  Tuesday Aug 16 04:54 PM

My grandmother used to be 5'8". She is now 4'10".

I read somewhere that this lady is the only one who ever claimed to be the woman in the photo, but that almost a dozen men have claimed to be the man. I think they picked this one guy not because they were sure, but because they wanted "the couple" for the commemoration ceremony.

I think it's cute that she'll only let him kiss her on the cheek this time.



Hobbs  Tuesday Aug 16 05:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlandman


look look we're gay! See, we're gay! Everyone needs to know.... we're gay!

Nice positioning of the microphone in his hand, too.

<SIGH>
Amen brother!


Queen of the Ryche  Tuesday Aug 16 05:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurotica
mlandman--
So do you consider every opposite-sex couple that kisses in public to be flaunting their heterosexuality? Or is dispalying affection in public without being called an "attention whore" some sort of "right" conferred by heterosexual privilege?
Gee, nice way to enter the Cellar! If you'll notice, there are a lot of snarky comments in here - no need to be offended - just walk away! This is the IOTD section, not the discuss the pros and cons of homo or heterosexuality - Lighten up a little!
And welcome to the Cellar!


Happy Monkey  Tuesday Aug 16 05:54 PM

If the gay guys were really trying to be flamboyant, they would have duplicated the original pose.



xoxoxoBruce  Tuesday Aug 16 06:19 PM

Since the guys aren't groping, they could just be clowning around, too.



Neurotica  Tuesday Aug 16 07:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen of the Ryche
Gee, nice way to enter the Cellar! If you'll notice, there are a lot of snarky comments in here - no need to be offended - just walk away! This is the IOTD section, not the discuss the pros and cons of homo or heterosexuality - Lighten up a little!
And welcome to the Cellar!
I know a lot of snarky comments go on. I've been watching for over a year. I've just never felt the need to join to comment on anything until today. I've probably missed most of the stuff that might have sparked a comment from me, because I usually see the pictures soon after they are posted.

This may or may not be the place to discuss the issue of sexuality, but I wasn't the one that brought it up. I see walking away from something like that as condoning it, when I can very easily stand up and say, "Hey, I don't agree." I'll lighten up when heterosexism and homophobia cease to be a problem.

Now, where's the little smiley that will let you know this was written with a straightforward, rather than snarky or defensive, tone?

And thanks for the welcome!


richlevy  Tuesday Aug 16 08:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspode
I would far rather see two people kissing, regardless of gender, than something more offensive like, say, fighting, suing each other, ripping each other off. Kissing is good.

BTW...did anyone else click on this IOTD title thinking they were going to see Gene Simmons in a wheelchair?
Me too.


xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Aug 17 01:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurotica
Now, where's the little smiley that will let you know this was written with a straightforward, rather than snarky or defensive, tone?
You're quite right, serious comment is allowed.


Cyclefrance  Wednesday Aug 17 09:13 AM

What about the guy on the left - he seems to have his arm around one girl but is well into tonsil exploration with another - greedy old so-n-so, or should that be lucky. lucky, lucky old b*****d!

Oh, and on the growth thing, heard/read somewhere that the only body part to continue growing as you get older is the ears - check out your old folk to confirm - strange therefore that old people get hard of hearing - I SAID STRANGE THEREFORE....



Happy Monkey  Wednesday Aug 17 09:47 AM

And the nose.



mrnoodle  Wednesday Aug 17 10:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
If the gay guys were really trying to be flamboyant, they would have duplicated the original pose.
Look carefully, though. One's humping the other's leg.


I'm just saying.


Cyclefrance  Wednesday Aug 17 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
And the nose.
No, not the nose, anything but the nose!

Are you sure - I've noticed the expansion of ear tissue on a number of our senior citizens, but cannot recall having witnessed any sudden eruptions in the nasal area (I could have said that better) when performimg annual visits on various elderly relatives. Sounds more like a rumour put around by the likes of Jimmy Durante, Charles de Gaulle and more recently Gerard Depardieu to me


xoxoxoBruce  Wednesday Aug 17 02:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
And the nose.
And the chin(s).
Quote:
What about the guy on the left - he seems to have his arm around one girl but is well into tonsil exploration with another - greedy old so-n-so, or should that be lucky. lucky, lucky old b*****d!
The guy mugging the girl in the red shirt is not the same as the one kissing the old girl behind them.


capnhowdy  Wednesday Aug 17 07:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurotica
mlandman--
So do you consider every opposite-sex couple that kisses in public to be flaunting their heterosexuality? Or is dispalying affection in public without being called an "attention whore" some sort of "right" conferred by heterosexual privilege?
When I kiss someone of the opposite sex in public, which is rarely, I am indeed flaunting my hetrosexuality. Or maybe I'm flaunting the fact that I'm not a queer. I prefer to see hetro contact because it doesn't make me

I was looking for Mr. Simmons, too...........


Happy Monkey  Wednesday Aug 17 07:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclefrance
No, not the nose, anything but the nose!

Are you sure
No. In fact, a cursory Google search suggests that continued growth of both ears and nose may be an urban legend.


jtm  Wednesday Aug 17 10:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by capnhowdy
When I kiss someone of the opposite sex in public, which is rarely, I am indeed flaunting my hetrosexuality. Or maybe I'm flaunting the fact that I'm not a queer. I prefer to see hetro contact because it doesn't make me

I was looking for Mr. Simmons, too...........
Dang, what century are we in?


wolf  Thursday Aug 18 01:26 AM

Holding hands, fine ... but significant parts fondling, ass-grabbing, or face sucking is a definite public turnoff, no matter what the assortment of interlocking parts may be.



Cyclefrance  Thursday Aug 18 04:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
No. In fact, a cursory Google search suggests that continued growth of both ears and nose may be an urban legend.
Nose may be legend , but ears?

No WAY!


bluraven  Friday Aug 19 11:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurotica
mlandman--
So do you consider every opposite-sex couple that kisses in public to be flaunting their heterosexuality? Or is dispalying affection in public without being called an "attention whore" some sort of "right" conferred by heterosexual privilege?
Thank you Neurotica, I couldn't have said it better myself. I agree with you and feel it is something very important to stand up for. I agree that if you don't stand up, it's like condoning it also. So thank you again for standing up.

BTW, this is my first post, I've been lurking for a couple years.


wolf  Saturday Aug 20 01:23 AM

Welcome, bluraven.



xoxoxoBruce  Saturday Aug 20 08:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluraven
BTW, this is my first post, I've been lurking for a couple years.
See, it may have seemed a little perverted at the time but posting didn't hurt at all did it? You'll find it gets easier each time you do it and after a very few times it'll seem like second nature and you'll wonder why you waited so long.
Personally, I second Wolf's welcome.


CharlieG  Monday Aug 22 08:15 AM

RE Displaying affection in public:

There is a limit, be it hetrosexual or homosexual - and most of us learned it in our teens or 20s (depending) - probably the first time an older friend walked up and said "Enough - take it to a room, or stop..."

I hold BOTH groups to the same standard. Want to hold hands, hug, quickly kiss, etc - fine. You want to explore each others tonsils (or more), do it in private!

I understand why sometimes it seems that homosexuals SEEM to do more in public - it's partly the viewers shock, partly (often at parades/protests) it IS done to shock/get attention/get in your face - just like any other form of protest. I deal with it, and don't take my kids near protests of any kind (they are too young, although my eldest is now getting old enough to understand protests, so that will change)

Then again, I live in NYC, so seeing gay/lesbian couples isn't too much of a shock. It's life. That's part of the few things I LIKE about NYC - I hold a party, or go to a party with my friends, there will usually be various mixed race/mixed sexuality/mixed political couples and singles there - makes for an interesting party.

People usually call me "right wing" - but I'm not. I'm probably closer to what would be called a "classical liberal" - small, but progressive government, that stays out of peoples lives, and allows the people a lot of freedom - but I'm also not quite a libertarian - somewhere in between



Happy Monkey  Monday Aug 22 08:43 AM

All bets are off, of course, when you are participating in a public event about kissing.



CharlieG  Monday Aug 22 09:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
All bets are off, of course, when you are participating in a public event about kissing.
That is true.

BTW about 20 years ago, I worked with a guy who's girlfriend was the office manager for the photographer that took the original photo. One of the interesting parts was they always knew who the woman was, but they did NOT have the man's name!! For years, guys would show up claiming to be "the guy" - and it turns out they had one way to know. The woman would ask ONE question "what did you say to me?" Then one year, the guy showed up. Turns out the reason he did NOT give his name was he was engaged at the time

Another interesting factoid - the original was NOT taken on VJ day!!!! Huh? It was published as a VJ day photo, but was actually taken a VE day. One clue to that? LOOK at what the people in the background are wearing... It was HOT in August - why the coats? That was also done to help disguse the guy


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