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   Undertoad  Sunday Jan 27 11:22 AM

1/27: Ashcroft and the nude



From ABCNews via Fark:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Ha...ofjustice.html

Amidst a flurry of denials, Atty Gen'l John Ashcroft has apparently asked for the nude statue that you see behind him there to be COVERED UP with $8000 in draperies because he is tired of being photographed in its presence during events in the Great Hall at the Justice Department.

Hilarious or sad? You make the call.



Nic Name  Sunday Jan 27 11:35 AM

If you cover-up Justice ... then the terrorists have won!



jeni  Sunday Jan 27 03:34 PM

what a jackass. it's silly that some people are really terrified of the naked human body, and when it's as great a symbol as that, for shame. what a dork :p



Nic Name  Sunday Jan 27 04:05 PM

The Taliban's Ministry of Vice and Virtue oversaw the destruction of the statues.

The ministry also enforced adherence to many facets of the Taliban's strict interpretation of Islam.

Women were required to cover themselves from head to toe.

Rather than destroy the statue of Justice, Ashcroft has ordered that she wear a burqa in his presence. How civilized!



dave  Sunday Jan 27 06:24 PM

Hence, Ashcroft being my least favorite part of our current administration. He really is a twat. But when you're obscenely rich and in a seat of unscrutable power, he can afford to be. Unfortunately.



dasviper  Monday Jan 28 12:42 AM

wait, wait

You know what? Maybe the dude just doesn't like being photographed in front of that statue day after day. He's not saying there's anything wrong with the staute itself, or boobs in general, he just doesn't want it lording over him in every damn press photo. Stop trying to make him in to the Fourth Reich when the man would simply like a change of background.



jaguar  Monday Jan 28 01:19 AM

Look at the guys politics, it fits, and i'm sorry but he really is a fucwit. I can in all honesty say i would grin from ear to ear upon news of his death, its him and his ilk that will ligitimise American as the enemy by ignoring international law, and generally acting like arrogant prats, its fuckwits like him that sent rangers into Somalia to protect US oil interests.



dave  Monday Jan 28 08:46 AM

Jag, you're spewing shit again.

Firstly, it's pretty sad that you'd actually grin ear to ear at his death. Me, I'd be pretty indifferent. I don't think he should have the post. But that doesn't mean he needs to die. He's got a family too, no doubt.

As for Somalia and US oil interests, I ask you to produce one piece of <b>credible</b> evidence that says they were there to protect the oil interests and <b>not</b> to safeguard and distribute food shipments. And yes, I know all about capturing the warlord too. But find me a policy letter stating that they were there <b>because of oil</b>.



Nic Name  Monday Jan 28 08:53 AM

Note to self: Ask Dick Cheney to produce that letter, too.



warch  Monday Jan 28 02:15 PM

What an ass. Its obscene that this personal marketing absurdity should even occupy his thoughts. (and I use the concept of thought very loosely here)



Nic Name  Monday Jan 28 02:57 PM



In 1501 Michelangelo was commissioned to create the David by the Arte della Lana (Guild of Wool Merchant), who were responsible for the upkeep and the decoration of the Cathedral in Florence.

Once the statue was completed, a committee of the highest ranking citizens and artists decided that it must be placed in the main square of the town, in front of the Palazzo Vecchio, the Town Hall. It was the first time since antiquity that a large statue of a nude was to be exhibited in a public place. This was only allowed thanks to the action of two forces, which by a fortunate chance complemented each other: the force of an artist able to create, for a political community, the symbol of its highest political ideals, and, on the other hand, that of a community, which understood the power of this symbol. "Strength" and "Wrath" were the two most important virtues, characteristic of the ancient patron of the city Hercules. Both these qualities, passionate strength and wrath, were embodied in the statue of David.

One might think that, in the 21st century, the Attorney General might appreciate a similar justification for the artistic presentations of Justice in the Great Hall of the Justice Department.



dasviper  Monday Jan 28 03:22 PM

one might think

that maybe this shouldn't be viewed as "John Ashcroft Hates Nude Statues and Thinks they Should all be Covered in Draperies," but pehaps as "John Ashcroft is Sick of Having a Naked Female Torso Sprouting from his Head in Every Copy of the Washington Post." Seriously, people, don't let your dislike of the man's politics so absurdly taint your interpretation of everything he does.



Nic Name  Monday Jan 28 03:40 PM

I think that is the point exactly.

The Pope shouldn't be embarassed about being photographed beside David. It's not pornography.

And Ashcroft should tell those who titter over such photographs to just grow up. Instead, he is embarassed and spends $8,000 to cover 'em up because of the beliefs he holds of the impropriety of these statues in the first place. And that's what's at issue here.

Ashcroft doesn't distinguish between Justice and Playboy bunnies.



warch  Monday Jan 28 03:42 PM

I am disturbed that he is ridiculously concerned about he perceives to be a negative, unflattering "self image" . Get over it. Justice upstages him and rightfully so.



hermit22  Monday Jan 28 04:43 PM

If he's so concerned

He should just move to a different press briefing room. I'm sure there's some nude-statue-less rooms in one of the Justice Department buildings.

Oh yeah, or drop his idiotic stance. That would work much better.



jaguar  Monday Jan 28 06:53 PM

Dham, want some evidence do you?
There you go.
I can also pull up the surrounding facts if you want.

As for Ashcroft, in the larger view, a backward government can stifle the forward movement of a society, by spewing their utterly stupid rubbish into law, they are building the next terrorist attacks. BY ignoring international law on every level alone they have said, we're not going to play by the rules, and push our weight around when we feel like it, why the fuck should anyone else obey them?(and if anyone says that utterly stupid illegal combatants rubbish.....) Without in any way wishing troops harmed Id love to see some US troops captured and held without a crap of attention paid to the Geneva Convention purely so spit in the US face about it. This kind of rubbish threatens to undermine international stability, and is against the longer term economic interests of everyone, US included. Another example? The missile shield, the only really credible use of it now is against china, thereby forcing China to greatly expand its warhead stockpile (as it is doing at the moment to counter the NMD), so in the end, everyone has more nukes and mad still stand, great fucking work. In the process you've destroyed an anti-profiliation treaty for a false sense of security. These people are dangerous, to everyone.



dave  Monday Jan 28 08:02 PM

jag -

I'm not looking for circumstantial evidence. So fuck that. Yes, I want surrounding facts. I want to be certain that 18 of my countrymen died for oil.

Prove it.



quzah  Tuesday Jan 29 03:04 AM

I'm surprised noone caught this:

Look at his hands. Look at the statue above him. Add a caption.

I donno, maybe it's just me...

Quzah.



jaguar  Tuesday Jan 29 05:04 AM

What am i meant to do? Hack into private conversations between governemtn and military? Tap the phone lines? THere IS no fuckign proff, but everything else fits, if you don't want to see it, you won't.

The US had zero other reason to drop in 20000 troops (like they respond to every humanatarian disaster like that) to delibver aid supplies? The timing? The HQ? Come on, at least it was a big factor, at most it was the only reason.



Griff  Tuesday Jan 29 08:56 AM

oil is part

I'd have to go look for an article to cite but there was more than "just" oil involved. Mohamed Said Barre had also run up an enormous foreign debt, for personal enrichment, which he left on the backs of his people. He was dumped, without ceremony, by his own people, who then failed to create another government to assume the debt, which the international community felt the "people" of Somalia were liable for. The international community couldn't bear the thought of a people without a centralized government.



kbarger  Tuesday Jan 29 10:01 AM

OK yes this attutide of his bothers me.. but.. fine.. if Ashcroft wants to be a puritanical prude that's his privilege. And as somebody else said, surely there's another location for that podium, or a different room, where those briefings could be done.

But jeez -- come on -- $8,000? How do you spend $8,000 to do something like this? Were the drapes hand-woven silk? Were the rods used to hang them from made of the finest hammered gold/platinum alloy? etc. etc. I give up. I need to go finish my departmental budget for work. I could do a lot with an extra $8,000.

(Wait, I never saw all those extra smilies before.. tell me it's not my fault for posting those links....)



dave  Tuesday Jan 29 10:57 AM

Yes, it is.



russotto  Tuesday Jan 29 02:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kbarger

But jeez -- come on -- $8,000? How do you spend $8,000 to do something like this? Were the drapes hand-woven silk? Were the rods used to hang them from made of the finest hammered gold/platinum alloy? etc. etc. I give up. I need to go finish my departmental budget for work. I could do a lot with an extra $8,000.
You haven't bought draperies recently, have you? Cost me over 100 bucks for an ordinary wool/acetate drapery and cheapie traverse rod for a standard-sized window. And that was on sale. I'm sure these are much bigger, of heavier material, and probably custom (and not on sale). $8000 doesn't seem out of line, except that they shouldn't be there in the first place.


kbarger  Tuesday Jan 29 02:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by russotto


You haven't bought draperies recently, have you? Cost me over 100 bucks for an ordinary wool/acetate drapery and cheapie traverse rod for a standard-sized window. And that was on sale. I'm sure these are much bigger, of heavier material, and probably custom (and not on sale). $8000 doesn't seem out of line, except that they shouldn't be there in the first place.
I admit, no... and I'm not suggesting they could have done it with $150 in stuff from Home Depot. but I refuse to believe that that statue couldn't have been covered up in an appropriate way (i.e. no thumbtacks in the historic wood paneling) for much less then $8,000.

Of course, it takes somebody who will say, "You know, $8,000 is an awful lot to pay to accomplish this.. maybe we should see if we can bring it in for less."


Nic Name  Tuesday Jan 29 03:33 PM

"I was traveling on a bus when some Taliban pulled me off and beat me for not wearing a burqa," she said: "It cost me 500,000 Afghanis ($33) to buy one."



russotto  Tuesday Jan 29 03:58 PM

Are you suggesting maybe the Justice Department should have purchased an oversized burqua for Liberty?



Nic Name  Tuesday Jan 29 04:00 PM

Justice. Whatever. It's the same mentality ... cover yourself, woman!



dave  Tuesday Jan 29 04:01 PM

Something tells me that :whofarted that might not be the most tasteful solution to the "problem" - at least in the minds of many.



Nic Name  Tuesday Jan 29 04:04 PM

Cheaper and easier to remove Ashcroft than remove Justice from the Great Hall. That guy scared me during his confirmation hearings, and that was before 911.



jaguar  Tuesday Jan 29 05:15 PM

Not far from the truth



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