Kids and the Internet
 

So help me out here... do parents have the right to control what their kids do on the internet in their home, on their computers, when the parents are paying the bill? Or do kids (teens of any age) get to do just whatever the hell they want and the parents are to stand by and let them have full run of the net??

Please comment since there are teens here who think they can do whatever they want.

This is a serious question, please give an explanation of why you support your position. Thanks.

The right is completely the parent's.

I have the right to paint "FUCK ALL THE MOTHER-FUCKING NIGGERFUCKERS" on my roof. I wont because only a dick would do that.

Controlling what your kid does is the authoritarian, dictorial, idiotic, and in all other ways wrong thing to do.

Teach them why they should or shouldnt do something, then trust them to do the right thing. If you taught them well, if they have half a brain, they'll do fine.

I have the right to paint "FUCK ALL THE MOTHER-FUCKING NIGGERFUCKERS" on my roof.

WRONG IB , you have the ability to do that ,
and you Dad or some other authoriety figuer has the RIGHT to punnish you for it .

If one of my kids had done some thing like that I would have stood over them while they scrubed it off or replaced the shingles , then they would have had to pay for said repairs out of their own pockets , oh and be grounded for a LONG WHILE ,
Rember slick , your parents are ONLY required to provide you with food clothing and shelter , EVERY thing else is a privlage ,
Think No IPod , PC ( exept for school work ) , all your toys ( guitars , make ups , weird clothes ETC ,,,, )
What they give they can take away ,
Ask my Step daughter about the time I took her bed room door privlageds away for 2 weeks , or the time she got to spend in a tent in the back yard for a week .

Who said I controlled anything? Please review all previous posts teen and point out where I stated that I "controlled" anything they did. All that was stated son was that I monitored via appropriate spyware. Good stuff.

By 'my house' i meant 'a house owned by me' - maybe not me PERSONALLY etc, but if it's MY house (not my family's, MINE), then I can do what I want with it. I'm not arguing as a teen; I'm arguing as a person. I know as a teen I have next-to-no rights. I'm talking about people, not about ME.

Can we just keep this in one thread for God's sake?

In that case IB you could do what you want , untill the cops come and make you scrub it off ,

Just like access to any other adult material, guns, alcohol, porn; adult rated films, music, games and other material a parent has a right to monitor & limit access to adult websites, blog content, videos, and possible people (just like where your kids go and whom they speak to in life) posing as someone other than whom they claim to be.
One is NO DIFFERENT than the other.
It is not a parent's right to do so... it is their obligation... if they do not, they are lacking in parenting skills and, well, you can fill the rest in.

Monitoring is control. If you can stop something you don't want, you have, in effect, already done so.

So what you're saying, rkzenrage, that even though I'm obviously a responsible and trustworthy kid, most of the time, my parents are wrong for giving me the freedom to use the internet (and therefore come here on the cellar) without them breathing down my neck?

Teaching someone what they should and shouldnt do, and why, is better and more effective than any amount of iron-fisted control or spying.

And I am talking ONLY about teens, as we have from the beginning of this discussion, don't try to change horses in the middle of the stream.

Again teen, my house, my rules.

Say it with me again here folks. A right is not the same as a good course of action.

I have the right to, say, carry a wad of hundred-dollar bills and wave them at the homeless people down on skid row. But I wont because that would make me a DICK.

I'm not denying that its your internet, your house, your computer, your rules - I'm just saying that because of your rules, youre an asshole.

Cool, and I am saying you are inmature teen who has never known the responsiblity of parenthood and never has even paid your own damm bills long enough to know what the term "responsibility" means. Now go get a job.:D

You read "iron fisted" and "breathing down my neck" into my post.
I never stated nor implied monitoring every mail, post, site for a teen of sixteen to eighteen. But, the ability to if you feel their is evidence, or if you just need piece of mind, is just good parenting.
Do your parents ask where you are at night, who you were with?
It is identical.
Also, my statement was not teen specific, you also read that into my post.
My son is three and plays games on-line, am I an asshole?

rkzenrage, I knew you werent saying that. I was describing Merc's scenario, not yours, to point out that you dont agree with him.

Ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem... yawn.
You have yet to respond to my arguments once.

You fail.

um, so um . . .

how old should a child to get his/her own email address?

on second thought--

nevermind!

Well according to the teens on here, it sounds like 10 years old and unsupervised would be Ok with them.:eek:

You fail because you have no experience. If I fail it is because I fail trying.

So there its settled , you both fail , !!!!!!

No, age and treachery trumps youth.:)

Still more ad hominem?

When is it going to get through to you that even though I dont have kids, I know the effect of authoritarian dictatorship in the household?

You are saying your experience automatically makes you right. I'm saying logic says you are wrong.

Who's making more sense here?

It sure the hell is not you. Well I bet most teens would agree with you, so I will give you that others who lack the experience of parenthood may share your views.:rolleyes:

TM, you have yet to even make an argument for anyone other than you to agree with! All you have done is call me every name you can think of. You have yet to defend the fact that you overcontrol your children other than the fact that you can.

Ok... can you respond to my post now? This does seem to be a peeve of yours.

Again, I know you have the hearing and attention span of a teen so let me repeat this slowwwwwlllly.....

Where do I "over control" my children?

What's there to respond to?

Sure, parents should limit kids' access to ADULT content... I guess. (I rather resent the assumption that there is a such thing as adult content, but thats up to you)
But for a teenager especially, teaching them why they shouldnt do it then trusting them not to until theyre ready for it is the only acceptable course of action, in my book, and the only that will work.

Out of the mouth of a babe... why of course a teen such as you would make such a comment. You are all knowing. All experienced. So I would suggest that your comment of I am a Mother-fucking-Asshole because of the way I choose to parent is none of you punk teen business. :D now is it? And may you be blessed with a child just like you, that is the best anyone could hope for you. I wish you the best. And I hope that no harm comes to any of your spawn because of your ignorance.

We need to make an 'ad hominem' smiley or something so I dont have to keep typing it over and over.

Sorry son, no evidence of control, only monitoring.

Oh, okay, so you just watch them, just for the hell of it, no assumption of control or authority?

Yeah, and the 1984 viewscreens are only there for watching too.

Your inability to discuss the issue, esp the original comment, hardly qualifies as "ad hominem". But hey, have at it teen...:D

I see you are right on track:

http://www.rothcpa.com/archives/misc...Foil%20hat.jpg

Which of you two is going to be the bigger man and put an end to this juvenile flame war? Seriously. Its time to knock it off. There are kids who read this forum.

What the fuck?

YOU have yet to discuss the issue as anything but "OMG I CAN DO WTVR I WANT ITS MY HOUS N MY NET AND I CAN!!!one!!1!111one"

Your only defense of your actions is "i can so i will".

Alas, Merc, I must go to the school with my mother (she just had a kidney stone so she doesnt wanna hike all the way down the hill alone), so I'll be back in an hour or so to continue this lovely (if rather one-sided) 'debate'.

Beestie, I'm not letting go of this one until he stops attacking me and starts actually explaining or debating in a mature fashion, in anything but an ad hominem manner.

Teen, you have made no argument. Other than "You are a Mother-Fucking-Asshole" because I said parents should get internet monitoring software if they have teens, like you, in their house. Where is the argument?

How did I attack you if you call me a "Mother-Fucking-Asshole"?

Cloud, you might like to read my response in the other thread. I'm sure others also would like to add something but their comments are likely to get lost in the piles of poo being flung around in here.

I called you an asshole because you spy on your kids. That was an attack, of course. Most insults are.
In return, instead of debating, you spent the better part of the next two hours attacking me relentlessly, pretending to be debating.

My position has been and still is "If your kids have half a brain at all they can make their own decisions about what is and isnt okay. You teach them how to be safe, and let them do the rest." Yours is... nonexistent at this point. You have yet to even give a position that isnt "IBRM IS STOOPID CUZ HE IS A TEENAGR LOLFAG!!11!one!"


I'm still in favor of bannage, for his awful, filthy homophobic trolling trash if for nothing else.

Like TheMercenary?? :p

By installing such software, you're telling everyone that you have NO TRUST IN YOUR OWN FUCKING CHILDREN. That's why you're getting stock with the label of "M-F-A"

All the "Internet Monitoring Software" in the world will not stop a determined enough child anyway, so what's the point? Grow some balls, and EDUCATE your children about "teh horrorz of teh pr0n on teh intarwebz" intead of being a do-nothing bastard, hoping a bunch of 0's and 1's will kep your kids off the pornsites.

I'd pity you, dude, but that's just not in my character.

How about y'all discuss this in a mature fashion.

No matter how valid your argument is, calling someone a MFA takes away any impact the rest of your argument has.

And constantly calling someone, "kid", "teen", "faggot" (see other post), does the same as well as making you look like a condescending twit.

If you can't do these things, please stop the talk. It gives me a headache.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piTe65YPj2Q
Best viewed fullscreen.

Merc and Ibram. You're both right. But you're talking about different worlds and addressing different parts of a mis-matched either/or question.

Merc, yes of course bill paying parents have the right to put any restrictions they damn well please on the service they are paying for. That said, I agree with Ibram in the main, but my kids are in an alternative school and they and their school mates are not representative of todays youth in general. Ibram, you're home-schooled, right? Sounds like that puts you in the same category as my kids. They do not need internet supervision because their entire schooling is based around self-direction, commmunity awareness, learning skills, responsibilty etc. We trust them and they repay that trust. Yes, of course we check occasionally to make sure, but we do that openly. we don't spy. But we must give them a loing leash, so they can test what we have taught them about internet safety to make sure of it for themselves.

Traditional schooling systems are based around fact learning rather than personal growth, and if you give these kids a long leash, they will use it to hang you out to dry or strangle themselves. Not because they are bad kids, but because they are so unused to the personal freedom they're on a high (but they will probably pass standardized tests with higher scores). So you can't give them a long leash. You do need to spy on their internet access etc. But you know, they're going to do what you don't want them to at the library or a friend's house.....

Oh I'm rambling. Let's get back to the OP

yes

this is not the opposite of the first question. Yes, parents have the right of full control. They can exercise that right, or they can let the kids do whatever they want, or they can find some midpoint.....

Ibram has been pointing this out for some time, but you have refused to listen because he is a teen and because he called you an asshole. Maybe you will also refuse to listen to me. I'm not going to call you an asshole, but I am a woman, fairly liberal/hippy in my outlook and also younger than you.

I think you need to clarify your questions to make a proper either/or scenario. So, do you want to ask

a) Do parents have the right to control internet access int heir house or do kids have a right to unsupervised internet access?

or

b) should parents spy on their children's internet actiivities or should they allow their children free range?

or both? They are different issues but you seem to have managed to equate them.

Actually I'm definitely not homeschooled; I've been to a grand total of nine schools in my life thus far, but not a single one of them have been at home.

If my parents had to deal with me all day they'd've kicked me outta the house ages ago.

You are that much trouble for mom and dad? :p

No, I'm just that abrasive of a person - I don't shut up. Ever. Seriously, I talk way too much.

Oh c'mon Ibram--your parents adore you, admit it.

I think my parents would have disowned me if I said more than 10 words a day to them.

So, you never tried it?

I always chicken out at nine words

LOL, then you're a duck ducken.

a) 1. Yes. 2. No
b) 1. Yes. 2. No

Kids have no rights until they adults. Other than a safe home and loving caring parents who provide them food and shelter. Other than that, if you are less than 18 years old in the United States, you have no "Rights" other than those directy afforded to you by the law and even than, most of those are trumped by parental control. Everything else is a privilege.

Yes, but you still have yet to address the point.

The question is not can you; the question is SHOULD you, and why?

You have still not answered that.

Ok, let's start over....

Yes I should because I should and have the right to know everything that is going on in my house and with my kids. I have a right to know if they are smoking pot, doing things that are putting them at risk for life altering events, be it either sex, drugs, drinking, etc. I have the right to take steps to intervene in those potential behaviors and do what I can to stop it or at least mediate it. The advent of the internet is the first medium where parents can lose complete control and supervision of their kids and all they are doing. Kids and teens have no rights, other than what I previously stated. Once 18, they have all the rights and responsiblities associated with adulthood. Hence they also will suffer the consequences of all behaviors.

Why are you still talking about this in terms of rights?

I dont give a fuck about rights, the point is not about rights. It's about decent courses of action, and why.

My position has been stated so many times that I'm sure I dont need to say it again. Yours is still "I do it because I can".

Please actually give some kind of justification, some kind of logical explanation for monitoring your poor kids like someone out of an Orwell novel.

You argue like my 16 year old kids did, circular. It is about safety and helping them stay out of trouble. I know you don't "give a fuck about rights". No teens "give a fuck" because they think they have some, they don't. The decent course of action for all parenting is trying to do what is the right thing to keep your kids safe and out of harms way. All teens do things which place them at great risk. Those are the things I want to attempt to mediate when those events arise. That is the justification. My kids are not poor. Don't make assumptions about them.

So what youre saying is that your strategy of spying then intervening is superior to my argument that a parent should teach their child well and then trust their judgment?

Something you don't realize is that the best of your intentions as a parent will never lead to them using their judgement in the best way.

The assumption you have made is that teaching your child "well", whatever that is, is going to lead to them always making the right choices and using their best judgment. Ask every parent on here what "teaching your child 'well' is and you will get a different answer from each one. Ask any parent who has lost a child to a sexual predator, a teen pregnancy, a teen with HIV/AIDS, a child with a drug or alcohol habit, the one who died in a car accident or killed a friend, the child who committed suicide, ask them each if they thought that they were doing everything the best way they could and teaching them well enough to prevent all those acts, I would bet most would say they had.

Personally, I think the level of monitoring should depend on the age as well as the level of responsibility the child demonstrates in other areas. You can teach them, but have that proved that they've learned those lessons?

For example, my S18 (nearly 19) has had unsupervised use of the internet for 3 years now. But he is exceptionally responsible in that he doesn't smoke, drink, use drugs, break curfew or otherwise disrespect me. The only issue we've had with his internet usage is downloading viruses along with his game mods. We finally put him on a separate router and installed a ferocious firewall to protect the other PC's in the house. If he destroys his PC, that's his problem.

On the other hand, my D11 is far from responsible enough to surf or play online unsupervised. She clicks on everything (popups, etc.), has no idea what porn or unsafe sites are and thinks everyone is nice and wants to be her "friend" :rolleyes: . She is not allowed to visit MySpace or anything other than Disney, some Science sites, Wikipedia, and the TLC site. Someone is always looking over her shoulder while she's online.

By the way, I recently had a little talk with the miss and explained that this was MY house, as was everything in it. She does NOT have the 'right' to watch her TV when she likes, skip her chores, lock her bedroom door to keep me from bugging her about her homework (that lost her a doorknob), or play her Nintendo DS when grounded just because it is 'hers'. I have zero responsiblity to provide her with Nike shoes, take her skating, let her friends come over whenever she wants, or buy coca cola and doughnuts for her. Nope. Those are priviledges that she has to EARN by doing what I require of her...namely: good grades, respectful attitude, and doing as she is told, ie: her chores. She was pretty shocked, I think.

Good.

Stormie