The Smoking Gun

xoxoxoBruce · 05-25-2007, 09:35 PM

Most of you have seen stuff from a website called The Smoking gun. You may not have known it, but that's where most of the arrest booking pictures of celebrities come from.

Here is something different from them.

Quote:

MAY 24--In a recent raid on an al-Qaeda safe house in Iraq, U.S. military officials recovered an assortment of crude drawings depicting torture methods like "blowtorch to the skin" and "eye removal." Along with the images, which you'll find on the following pages, soldiers seized various torture implements, like meat cleavers, whips, and wire cutters. Photos of those items can be seen here. The images, which were just declassified by the Department of Defense, also include a picture of a ramshackle Baghdad safe house described as an "al-Qaeda torture chamber." It was there, during an April 24 raid, that soldiers found a man suspended from the ceiling by a chain. According to the military, he had been abducted from his job and was being beaten daily by his captors. In a raid earlier this week, Coalition Forces freed five Iraqis who were found in a padlocked room in Karmah. The group, which included a boy, were reportedly beaten with chains, cables, and hoses. Photos showing injuries sustained by those captives can be found here.

This statement is followed by 12 pages of the drawings and pictures of the implements and victims that were still alive.
Do you need a warning?

Yznhymr · 05-25-2007, 11:50 PM

The pics of the torture victims makes it more real...I wonder how bad it was for the ones that didn't survive. Gitmo seems so tame in comparison (not to excuse anything going on there).

Urbane Guerrilla · 05-26-2007, 03:39 AM

Oh, go ahead and excuse it. Gitmo shows our nature; this shows theirs.

Defeat them. Accept no substitute for victory.

TheMercenary · 05-26-2007, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Oh, go ahead and excuse it. Gitmo shows our nature; this shows theirs.

Defeat them. Accept no substitute for victory.

We did not torture anyone like this at Gitmo or at the Abu Ghraib prison... But the peace loving members of this group of Arabs gets a pass.

Aliantha · 05-26-2007, 05:57 AM

UG, do you think gitmo is a good example of american nature?

Undertoad · 05-26-2007, 07:55 AM

Hopefully this display of actual torture will be helpful to those Dwellars who label waterboarding and other such fraternity hazing-level activities as torture.

richlevy · 05-26-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Hopefully this display of actual torture will be helpful to those Dwellars who label waterboarding and other such fraternity hazing-level activities as torture.

I think this is a classic case of desensitization. You look at blowtorches to the skin, and suddenly waterboarding seems harmless, almost quaint. It isn't. Any fraternity that tried it would find it's members doing 5-10 for assault.

Quote:

Waterboarding consists of immobilizing an individual and pouring water over his face to simulate drowning, which produces a severe gag reflex, making the subject believe his death is imminent while ideally not causing permanent physical damage. "The threat of imminent death" is one of the legal definitions of torture under U.S. law [2].

Emphasis mine on ideally. One of the advantages of someplace like Guantanamo and 'secret prisons' is if a fatal heart attack does occur, a discreet disposal of the body is possible.

BigV · 06-05-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Hopefully this display of actual torture will be helpful to those Dwellars who label waterboarding and other such fraternity hazing-level activities as torture.

HEY!! You forgot me!

Spexxvet · 06-05-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Hopefully this display of actual torture will be helpful to those Dwellars who label waterboarding and other such fraternity hazing-level activities as torture.

Their dispicable behavior doesn't make our behavior ok.

05-26-2007, 11:43 AM

Some torture is REALLY bad, so ours isn't torture any longer? NOT!
Stupidest argument I've ever heard.

Undertoad · 05-26-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Some torture is REALLY bad, so ours isn't torture any longer? NOT!
Stupidest argument I've ever heard.

Lesson #34, online debate: if you can't poke holes in a point, change it so that it's wrong, and then harshly disagree with it. Maybe nobody will notice!

Undertoad · 05-26-2007, 11:44 AM

"Ideally" in that context sounds like a wiggle word, and I can't resist noticing that the "ideal" result of an eye gouging is, well, an eye gouged out. Hands up all who would rather be "ideally" water boarded over being "ideally" eye-gouged.

05-26-2007, 11:46 AM

Neither is ideal.

05-26-2007, 11:55 AM

Keep sayin' it... tap your heels together three times too.... perhaps that will work.

wolf · 05-26-2007, 12:41 PM

I think this is what happens to cultures whose religions don't allow representative art.

05-25-2007, 11:50 PM	#2
Yznhymr the crowd goes wild! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 663	The pics of the torture victims makes it more real...I wonder how bad it was for the ones that didn't survive. Gitmo seems so tame in comparison (not to excuse anything going on there). __________________ "The pride system tends to intensify the self-hate against which it is supposed to be a defense, since any failure to live up to one's tyrannical shoulds or of the world to honor one's claims leads to feelings of worthlessness." Bernard J. Paris, Ph.D.

05-26-2007, 05:57 AM	#5
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	UG, do you think gitmo is a good example of american nature? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

05-26-2007, 12:41 PM	#15
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I think this is what happens to cultures whose religions don't allow representative art. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

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05-26-2007, 03:39 AM	#3
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Oh, go ahead and excuse it. Gitmo shows our nature; this shows theirs. Defeat them. Accept no substitute for victory. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

05-26-2007, 07:55 AM	#6
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Hopefully this display of actual torture will be helpful to those Dwellars who label waterboarding and other such fraternity hazing-level activities as torture.

05-26-2007, 11:43 AM	#10
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Some torture is REALLY bad, so ours isn't torture any longer? NOT! Stupidest argument I've ever heard.

05-26-2007, 11:44 AM	#12
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	"Ideally" in that context sounds like a wiggle word, and I can't resist noticing that the "ideal" result of an eye gouging is, well, an eye gouged out. Hands up all who would rather be "ideally" water boarded over being "ideally" eye-gouged.

05-26-2007, 11:46 AM	#13
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Neither is ideal.

05-26-2007, 11:55 AM	#14
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Keep sayin' it... tap your heels together three times too.... perhaps that will work.

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