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09-15-2012, 05:16 PM | #1 | |
The future is unwritten
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Death Penalty
I've always been in favor of the death penalty. I still am for all the reasons I've stated here before. And the belief from following some of the cases with a personal interest, that all prisoners subjected to the death penalty have tons of legal representation and numerous appeals that eliminate any arguments.
BUT, this case has shaken my foundations... violently. Quote:
I've signed the online petition for clemency.
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09-15-2012, 05:26 PM | #2 | |
We have to go back, Kate!
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I've seen too many examples in the news, in my own country and in yours to believe that capital convictions can ever be considered absolute guarantees of guilt.
And I've seen too many reports showing that the appeals system is deeply flawed and inconsistent to think that gives proper security to those convictions.
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09-15-2012, 05:58 PM | #3 |
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@Dana
Agreed |
09-16-2012, 03:28 AM | #4 |
polaroid of perfection
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Kill him and then give him a posthumous pardon.
Worked for Derek Bentley. Reading up on that case changed my opinion of capital punishment, previously shaped by my father who is still a proponent of the death penalty.
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09-16-2012, 05:39 AM | #5 |
Slattern of the Swail
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I used to be in favor of the death penalty but now I'm not. Even ONE mistake is too many and I've very little faith in law enforcement in America. I am in favor of solitary confinement which, IMHO, is worse than death. Death sentences are costly, take forever and never give any murder victim back from the void. It's silly to do it. Just put 'em in the hole forever.
Having been in health care for longer than I care to admit, I've seen worse things than death.
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In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum |
09-16-2012, 05:49 AM | #6 |
polaroid of perfection
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I am always slightly puzzled when someone who kills themself in their cell (or dies of natural causes in remand) is said to have cheated justice. Or that the families of victims have been denied justice.
Does justice mean revenge?
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09-16-2012, 05:58 AM | #7 | |
Slattern of the Swail
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Quote:
Yes. eta: we WERE founded by those nutty Puritans. I have a book that says something about the Calvinistic attitudes of Puritans and their lust for beaver and mink skins and the rise of capitalism and how they only cared, really, deep down in their secret evil hearts, for profit. Not god, not justice, but profit. And revenge. They stole the Indian's winter cache of corn, you know. They weren't exactly wonderful people. It's all due to that lineage that we're all fooked up.
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In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum |
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09-16-2012, 06:12 AM | #8 | ||||||
We have to go back, Kate!
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Location: Yorkshire
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I have always been against the death penalty. I would say it was probably the first actual political opinion I ever held. Probably because it was something heavily debated in the public sphere when I was growing up. I recall us having debates about it in school when I was 11 years old or so.
Initially, I think it was the sense of horror at the thought that anyone could, in theory, find themselves facing execution in the event of a miscarriage of justice. Thre were several high profile cases around the same time, in which people were shown fairly categorically, to have been wrongfully convicted of capital crimes. Some of these were ongoing for many years, and had a strong racial or political component. Over the years I refined my views somewhat. I now object to it in principle, even if one could ever be truly secure in the justice system and its findings. I do not believe in meeting personal murder with state murder. I also think that the power to take away life is far too great to be invested in the hands of government and judiciary. And I find it baffling that in a country like America, where trust in political offices and governmental systems is so low, you would nonetheless willingly hand that power to them. But back to the pragmatic reasons for concern: Here are some examples of unsafe, or questionable convictions in recent decades, which led to the execution of the (possibly innocent) people involved. 1. Troy Davis - executed Quote:
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The appeals process is only as strong as the individuals who man it. There is a good deal of evidence that personal prejudice, political expediency and outright incompetance can and do subvert the judicial system from first investigation to final appeal.
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Last edited by DanaC; 09-16-2012 at 06:20 AM. |
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09-16-2012, 06:16 AM | #9 |
Slattern of the Swail
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^WSS esp. last paragraph.
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In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum |
09-16-2012, 11:05 AM | #10 |
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Certainly the jury/trial/sentencing system, itself, is one of the problems with the death penalty.
But was that xoB's original issue ? I read his OP more along the lines of "justifiable homicide", that was not an imminent threat or fight-or-flight self-defense. Instead, it seems more along the lines of revenge or prevention from further abuse. Obviously, the judiciary system and society failed this boy/man during his lifetime. But did he have alternative's, and what form of punishment would be appropriate ? . |
09-16-2012, 04:15 PM | #11 |
The future is unwritten
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The clemency petition is to commute the sentence to life without parole. Five of the jurors claim they would have voted for a life sentence if they had been informed he wouldn't be back on the street in the future.
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09-16-2012, 05:47 PM | #12 |
I love it when a plan comes together.
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I've read only what has been posted here regarding this case. If in fact this convicted murderer killed twice, five months apart, it seems that any mitigating circumstances for commuting the death sentence applicable after the first time are outweighed by a developed thirst for killing as his retaliation of choice thereafter. I wouldn't object to this murderer being put down.
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09-16-2012, 06:41 PM | #13 |
Werepandas - lurking in your shadows
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Watching an execution will change how you feel about the death penalty.
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09-16-2012, 06:59 PM | #14 |
I love it when a plan comes together.
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That may only be because you didn't see the capital crime as it was being committed.
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09-16-2012, 07:05 PM | #15 |
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The second best argument against capital punishment: no one will agree on who 'deserves it.
Guilty vs not guilty being the first best argument. Assuming you ignore the cost-effectiveness argument and pretend it is cheaper to enact the death penalty given our legal system of all that pesky appeal stuff, and other reasons dp costs so much more. |
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