Effectiveness of prison

[hot_pastrami]

The purpose of the prison system is ostensibly to rehabilitate criminals, but I know of few people who feel that it accomplishes that. It does sometimes act as a deterrent, and it does keep dangerous criminals (and naughty priests *cough*) off the streets for a time, but I think that very few ex-cons walk out the prison gate at the end of their sentence with a new appreciation for the humanity who was wronged by their crime. I think they probably harbor a fair amount of bitterness, mixed with another part anger, fear, crazy, or any combination of the above.

Do you guys agree? What would be a better system, if any?

What if prisons were reserved for violent offenders, and all others were basically put under monitored house arrest, with their freedoms severely limited... like a very scrictly enforced parole? They could be required to wear a non-removable tracking device so their movements could be followed. For the more troubled non-violent criminals, mandatory therapy could be added to the sentence.

Maybe that's a poor solution. I just think it's fucked up that guys who get busted for having a couple joints can be forced to spend a few years in a big concrete-and-iron building with a bunch of violent murderers and rapists.

[Griff]

Restitution would be nice, of course when there isn't a victim that can be a might difficult.

[Troubleshooter]

As near as I can tell, todays prisons are not much more than a period of taking it in the ass while you learn how to not get caught. There's your rehabilitation.

A lot of people don't realize where the term "deadline" comes from.

It comes from early prisons that didn't have walls, only a line on the ground.

If you crossed that line a sniper administered the punishment.

There's what used to be a deterrent.

[godwulf]

Some people speak about it as an either/or situation - either incarceration is for deterrence, OR it's for retribution, OR it's for rehabilitation, etc. In school, my criminal law professor, who was an active federal prosecutor, taught us that incarceration's purpose was all of these, with a few more thrown in.

In a sense, no two convicts are 'in there' for exactly the same reasons, nor will they be affected by the experience in exactly the same way. All the rehabilitative opportunities in the world will be wasted on some, while the most draconian punishments and deprivation imaginable will be similarly wasted on others.

My own take on the state of prisons in America is that control of the asylum has, to a large extent, been ceded to the inmates. It's far easier to avoid 'stressing out' the convicts, by pretty much permitting them to run the place, rape and beat one another at will, use illegal drugs, in some cases wear civilian clothes, etc., than it would be to bring back the striped prison outfits, leg irons, iron discipline, and constant lack of privacy and loss of individual identity that would make prison the last place to which anybody, regardless of their criminal propensities or lack of mental acuity, would wish to return.

[russotto]

Prisons are less than worthless for rehabilitation. Go in a criminal, come out a worse criminal... or a gang-raped AIDS-infected shell of a person.

Prisons don't seem to work for deterrence, though I suspect that's because most criminals don't figure on getting caught.

Prisons do keep criminals from committing crimes against most people for the time they're in prison. That seems to be about it.

[be-bop]

Quote "The pupose of prison is ostensibly to rehabilitate criminals.

Balderdash.. it punishment for wrongdoing,I dont give two hoots if the guy who rips me off has a hard luck story,fuck im I've been poor but I did'nt rob or murder someone to get what I wanted.
I want the bastard to go to jail end of story.

Story in yesterday's paper.16 year old guy in Glasgow attacks a complete stranger at a bus stop,knocks the guy over the head with a metal pole then jumps up and down on the poor guys head as if it was a trampoline.He then threw the pole away walked away but came back and had another go at the man before being dragged off.The guy dies in hospital and the 16 year old's up for murder.his excuse,had been drinking wine beer and vodka and had no recollection of the crime.
The Judge in these cases asks for social background reports and the good old social workers recommend community service or a fine,the social worker requested the Judge not to impose a sentence of such length that would have the 16 year old feeling he had been written off by society.
The Judge dismissed their report and gave the bastard 18 years.

I would have had him swinging on the end of a rope.
How can you rehabilitae that???

[Happy Monkey]

Except in the cases of the death penalty or life in prison, rehabilitation is necessary. Otherwise you end up with a ton of hardened criminals coming out of prison each year.

[hot_pastrami]

be-bop... the key word there is "ostensibly," which means that it "seems to" or "pretends to" rehabilitate criminals. I agree with you, the prison system DOES NOT rehabilitate the criminal most of the time. It may instill fear of returning to prison, thus acting as a preventative measure against future crimes, but that's different from the regret and desire to improve one's life which rehabilitation would provide.

I wasn't claimig that prisons DO rehabilitate criminals, I was stating that in my opinion and observations, they DON'T. But is there a better answer? Can these criminals be fixed (in either meaning of the word... heheh *cough*).

[xoxoxoBruce]

Prison? well it keeps them off the streets.

In Philly, a crack dealer was given house arrest, where he had to wear an anklet the would notify the authorities if he got to far from his telephone.
The cops found him selling crack in front of his house with the phone on a long extension cord sitting next to him.

[elSicomoro]

I think prisons could be better if we as a society focused more on rehabilitation than punishment. There are some criminals that cannot be rehabilitated, but I suspect that a large number of them can.

Not to mention, how many people in prison (especially federal prisons) are drug felons? Most of that is simply bullshit, IMO.

[hot_pastrami]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Prison? well it keeps them off the streets.

In Philly, a crack dealer was given house arrest, where he had to wear an anklet the would notify the authorities if he got to far from his telephone.
The cops found him selling crack in front of his house with the phone on a long extension cord sitting next to him.

That house arrest is a good idea, poorly implemented. First, the anklet should use GPS positioning rather than proximity to a moveable station. Second, there should be cameras involved... privacy is a right one loses when in prison, so why should house arrest be any different? Software could be developed to watch the camera feeds and the GPS data, and be able to detect suspicious activity. A human observer could then be alerted, and check the camera feed personally to watch for problems... there's the job for all of the out-of-work prison guards (those who don't switch to a career of stripping, anyway *cough*).

I guess there'd need to be an escalataion system for people who commit crimes while under house arrest. Hmm.

[Razorfish]

I agree that prisons, while designed to be places of reform, are anything but helpful to a lot of people. There are some people who trulely beyond help and they need to be behind bars but thats not the same for everyone who serves time. I think that there needs to be a better disinction made between the two groups. The prison system has already done this by segregating violent inmates but I believe that more can be done.

Unfortunately an issue brought up by this is what exactly are the requirements for someone to be written off as incurable? Its hard to comprehend how violent or disturbed some people can be. Where do we draw the line between those curable and those beyond help?

Personally I've always favored the prisons that make the imates work. Examples include Angola State and some newer prisons in Arizona. In these situations at least the inmates are helping to pay for their expense on the government, having something to do rather than stew in a cell all day, and even getting some valuable work skills for their lives outside of prison.

Sidenote: As for these ever increasing number of corporate criminals, commit a crime=do the time. These people shouldn't be sent to so-called white coller prisons (like the one formerly located a Eglins AFB in Florida) because they have a lot of money. They screwed a lot of people over and deserve equal punishment.

[wolf]

I had the joy today of watching a juvenile probation officer anklet one of her kiddie prisoners.

Not as exciting as watching some of our most annoying patients being taken out in shackles and a lapbelt for a ride to The Big House, but satisfying in it's way.

What was truly amusing was watching her on discharge, crying to her mother, insisting that she was now having trouble walking because of the house-arrest bracelet.

"They were SOOOOOO mean ....."

[lumberjim]

my gut reaction to the prison problems we have is to say that they are too nice to the inmates.

There are those who intentionally get locked up so that they get 3 squares, a bed and shelter from the elements. If they kept the bad guys in holes in the ground, and paid someone to piss on their heads each morning, maybe, just maybe there'd be less inmates to deal with. Our prisoners have TV, excercise equipment, "recess", hot meals, etc. Their basic needs are handled for them. No pressure to succeed or better themseves in order to provide themselves more than the next guy has. As long as they keep their head down, and don;t get in extra trouble, they'll be released as early as possible, so the state can be done with supporting them.

Most prisons warehouse their inmates, and the potential for rehab is improbable at best. The only thing the inmate has is time. Some choose to take advantage of it, some don't. These are the redeemable, and irredeemable. The system is what it is. It is up to the individual incarcaree to rehabilitate himself.

[Troubleshooter]

Compare the lives and rights of a prisoner to that of a person in the military.

To the ones that deserve to be in prison, fuck you, you have it easier, and have more rights, than I did.