China is a Terrorist nation?

[tw]

This morning, on 'This Week with....' (ABC News), Condelluca Rice, Bush's National Security Adviser, listed a detailed definition of what defines an 'Axis of Evil'. Immediately Cookie Roberts noted that China qualified on every point of that definition in spades. Why is China not an "Axis of Evil" country? Because we talk to them. What nonsense is this! This is how our presidential staff makes decisions? Arbitrarily! The reason for those decisions are about as sensible as calling "Mariguana the gateway drug" (everybody knows that if a gateway drug exists, then it is coffee or alcohol).

Those reasons are just to provide cover so that other extremists can say "good reasons exist" - IOW lie.

When do you see everyone, including both George's, argree on something. George Wills was most explicit when it noted it was wrong to tie terrorism with governments. The two are distinctly different by definition. Yes, even the conservative George Wills finds George Jr's "Axis of Evil" to be wrong headed.

George Jr promised to separate his war on terrorism from partisan politics - and yet he already violated that promise in his State of the Union message . How many more George Jr promises will die so quickly when convenient? Read my lips - no new taxes? It must be a family trend. George Jr recently violated another promise, in spirit, with that joke he called an environmental plan for the future. He is even trying to backpedal on his acknowledgment that Global Warming is a problem.


George Jr declared N Korea as an 'Axis of Terror' because it sells missiles to the world. An yet another 'equally as large', missile marketeer is China. But then, it gets even messier. Israel sold technology to China to make those Chinese missiles more accurate knowing full well why they were selling the technology. Those missiles, in turn were sold to Saudia Arabia. Do we then add Israel to the 'Axis of Terror' even though the product is in what Israel's current goverment calles a major enemy? Remember, Israel also violates human rights within its borders, as defined by the 'Axis of Terror' definition. Israel does it so often that it was declared a racist nation by a UN convention on Racism recently held in S Africa. Israel, according to loose interpretation, is also an 'Axis of Terror' nation.

Or do we look at the world without George Jr's simplistic viewpoint. It was an Israeli company that sold the technology without government approval? Ahh... but if true, if we separate actions of local mafias from the government, then Iran is not an "Axis of Terror" either. Iranian democratically elected government did not ships weapons to terrorists. It is the mullah, the extremist religious leaders, who ship weapons from Iran, in part, to subvert a democratically elected government that opposes those mullah. So George Jr plays into the hands of religious extremist leaders like Iran's mullah and Israel's Sharon? Or does George really prefer to attack of governments that oppose religious extremists. How convenient. American religious extermists also support Geroge Jr.

Everyway it is looked at, the "Axis of Evil" is not based upon any intelligent thinking. It was done without consulting any other nation - many of which were caught blindsided and are now suffering international relation problems with this President directlly because of that speech. Top of this list include S Korea. George Jr has soured relations with both N and S Korea - but then what else is new. He has done so everywhere in the world - except with a dichead Prime Minister.

Like Rice's contradictory statements, so to is George Jr's logic. This George Jr decision is as intelligent as Johnson's reasons for escalating the VietNam war, Nixon's reasons from invading Cambodia, and Reagan's reasons for mining all Atlantic and Pacific ports of Nicaragua. Fortunately, George Jr has not yet used military.

It would be one thing if the current President could come up with some consistent facts to support his reasonings. But George Jr reminds us of a computer expert who runs about declaring that more fans will fix the computer. IOW George Jr's statements appear to be the rhetoric of his right wing extremist advisors who only see facts that are convenient. No wonder Sec of State Powell is fighting a rear guard action to perserve the American integrity and credibility in international capitals. Remember - Powell has outrightly warned each of us that this governement could become a world enemy - unilaterally declare war on Iraq. Among American extremists, that stupidity is acceptable!

"Axis of Terror" really defines the logic being used in today's White House. What logic? 'Feelings' is the better word.

[Undertoad]

"Because we talk to them" is not a nonsense answer; it's the right answer. It's a huge answer. Because they are involved in diplomacy, and have been moving in the right direction with respect to joining the rest of the world in handling matters diplomatically, China will not be a threat to the security of the US or the world.

The nations that are mentioned are ones that do not respect the diplomatic channels to get things done, yet enjoy brandishing their swords. What do you do with such nations? If the rest of the world is timid and content with allowing the problem to get worse, then things could get much much worse before they got better.

It would appear that all the rest of the world can offer is objections, not solutions, to problem like Hussein, who is known to use nerve gas on his own people. I'd sure like to find something wrong with the policy but so far all it's done is to liberate an entire nation. Just on that basis alone I'm willing to give the administration a pass.

All he's done is utter a few words and everyone's abuzz. If action is otherwise inevitable, maybe the talk will save a few bucks and a few lives.

[jaguar]

To the contrary the entire thing makes perfect political sense. First it defines a clear enemy, something that up till now the administration has been haveing trouble defining. Use of North Korea allows them to tie missle tech to terrorism, however stupid that is, and therefore jsutify the obselete Missle Shield. Iran ties in islamic extremeism, its all good.

Ut - China throws its weight around too - remember the "testing" of missles by firing them over tiwan? Just to point out one exmaple, and yes is involved in human rights abuses etc, but hey - we trade huge volumes thrhough them - of course they are not "evil"

[tw]

Originally posted by Undertoad
"Because we talk to them" is not a nonsense answer; it's the right answer. It's a huge answer. Because they are involved in diplomacy, and have been moving in the right direction with respect to joining the rest of the world in handling matters diplomatically, China will not be a threat to the security of the US or the world.

To understand what Undertoad has posted - we talk to China. Therefore China is not a threat even though they do same as N Korea - who we were talking to until extemists took over the American government. We were talking to N Korea. The US policy towards N Korea previously was 'engagement'. Get the N Koreans engaged as a responsible member of the world community. It was working since Kim Il Sung II wanted to undo the mess created by his father. But along comes the right wing extremist George Jr and his black/white view of the world.

Tell us, Undertoad. Have you ever previously found me so one sided against an American leader before? Why? What has changed? This is what your next post must address. Why do I find this adminstration as or more dangerous than Nixon?

North Korea was joining the world community due to overtures by Clinton and S Korea's Sunshine policy. S Korea's Sunshine policy was working because, in part, Clinton understood the intelligence of the policy and supported it. Then came mental midget George Jr who decided to declare "Axis of Evil". Suddenly and a direct result of American presidential ignorance, N Korea stopped being cooperative, destroyed years of work promoted by Clinton and S Korea, and exported missiles to raise foreign reserves. IOW they export missiles in numbers same as China. The only reason we don't talk to N Korea is because of a right wing extemist Geroge Jr administration. Take away that one factor - then China and North Korea are equally evil nations - according to definitions of National Security Advisor Rice.

If George Jr's extermists had attack China over a spy plane, then China too would be an Axis of Evil. Is it N Korea's actions that make them a terrorist nation - or the action of an extemist George Jr administration?

Don't you see why Cookie so jumped all over Rice after the National Security Advisor defined a terrorist nation? This is glaring obvious. According to Rice's myopic definition, both China and N Korea should be "Axis of Evil" nations. But since we don't maltreat China, then China is exempt from the details that otherwise makes China a terrorist nation. China is only exempt because China is not maltreated as N Korea. Then only reason we and S Korea no longer talk to N Korea - George Jr's adminstration. IOW N Korea is only an 'Axis of Evil' member because and again, George Jr destroyed years of engagement - years of work - by previous adminstrations and nations.

Had George Jr continued working with S Korea, with the Sunshine policy, with what Clinton had accomplished, then N Korea would not qualify as an Axis of Evil. But that assumed George Jr understood what Clinton and S Korea were doing.

This Axis of Evil definition is only created when Rice changes defintions after listing them in detail. IOW after defining what constitutes an "Axis of Evil" nation, she makes a liar out of herself. What is worse, N Korea qualifies as an "Axis of Evil" because they have reacted, as they should have, to right wing rhetoric of George Jr.

Engagement was working. The Sunshine policy was perfectly timed in conjuction with a new N Korean leader who desperately wanted to join the world community. Then along comes a mental midget president who undermines relations with both Koreas, then blames N Korea for conditions created by his extremist right wing advisors.

So when was the last time over 10+ years that I have ever been so critical of any American president? Notice that this criticism is based entirely on the actions and policies of a man who acts only as an extremist in a nation that is historically so moderate and tolerant. N Korea is only an "Axis of Evil" nation because George Jr has forced N Korea into its current position. George Jr, singlehandedly in one year, has destroyed a decade of work by both S Korea and Clinton because two years ago, George Jr did not even know where N Korea was located - we must assume.

[Undertoad]

Tell us, Undertoad. Have you ever previously found me so one sided against an American leader before? Why? What has changed? This is what your next post must address. Why do I find this adminstration as or more dangerous than Nixon?

I must address why you haven't been one-sided?

Sorry, guy, that's on the edge of weird.

[jaguar]

The only reason we don't talk to N Korea is because of a right wing extemist Geroge Jr administration. Take away that one factor - then China and North Korea are equally evil nations - according to definitions of National Security Advisor Rice.

Try +50billion trade.......

[Nothing But Net]

The level of intelligence around here! Nic Name has totally impressed me with his insights, and even Jaguar is coming around (when he gets off the HaXoR shit).

UT, maybe you should go that route, and market it as an intelligent site, unlike almost all the other crap I see. Tony, I am willing to help any way I can.

- 03#

[Nothing But Net]

Well said!

Nic, that's why I love ya', babe..

[jaguar]

you do realsie the haxor thing was a joke right..anyway its hax0r :p

[Undertoad]

All this stuff is off-topic but I would be happy to chat about this sociology experiment in the Cellar Suggestions area.

Yeah. This thread should definitely be marked to -1, just like all those other ones containing off-topic posts.