Green Taxes

Cyclefrance · 10-31-2006, 12:58 AM

Big play made by both our parliamentary parties over the last few days/weeks on the need to see a shift towards green taxes - so taxes on gas-guzzling cars, polluting products and services (and those produced at an unacceptable expense to the environment) will rise, while those that are more eco-friendly will fall - tax surpluses will be used to reduce the burden on those that need help, and also to fund programmes to address the pollution issue.

It's all down to a detailed study and report that concludes that we need to spend globally 1% of GDP now on appropriate measures if we wish to prevent the disaster that is facing the world as a result of global warming and greenhouse emissions.

It's a global issue, but with the likes of China, India and USA so far failing to sign up to any programme, most of us here wonder what we are going to achieve - and it all sounds like another way for our government to increase tax revenue rather than produce a solution that aims fairly and squarely at the problem (and deals with it). It is said that if we cut our emissions here to zero, that would represent only a few days of China's pollution output.

Where now?

WabUfvot5 · 10-31-2006, 01:58 AM

I say the idea is worth it if only to blame the USA in the future when the world is covered in smog

The problem with stuff like this is nobody wants to be the first to do it for the reasons you stated. Nobody wants to be the test subject. What other countries are better suited to do it? Would they do it? Of course any tax is subject to government waste but won't they get it through a different tax if not this one?

Cyclefrance · 10-31-2006, 03:07 PM

Well I suppose the governments of the world have to do something - they certainly need to and sooner rather than later, as the longer the delay the bigger the pain. Seems that the Indian sub-continent is taking some note of the problem. As an emerging nation it doesn't want to see it's efforts and progress destroyed for lack of attention to this global problem. Of more concern is the Chinese economy which is expanding at an alarming rate with pollution running in tandem. Apparently China opens a new coal-fired power station every 10 days, and the country is set to surpass the USA as the no.1 polluter in a matter of months rather than years - a dubious accolade!

BigV · 10-31-2006, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebediah

--snip--
The problem with stuff like this is nobody wants to be the first to do it for the reasons you stated. Nobody wants to be the test subject.--snip--

Are you calling me a nobody?! Ballard, my community, leads the way.

Quote:

We're getting serious about climate cooling in Ballard. The Home Energy and Conservation Guild of Sustainable Ballard invites you to consider NetGreen, a new program aimed at making individuals, households, or businesses become carbon neutral. Here's how: you do an analysis of your annual fossil fuel consumption and translate it into tons of emissions. Those tons are translated into $10 per ton. This equals your "carbon cost" which hopefully gets smaller every year as you conserve energy, drive less, lower your thermostat and so on. But for now, you donate that carbon cost to The Climate Trust, a group of scientists and inventors who are scanning the horizon for new, and immediately applicable projects that can reduce emissions on a bigger scale, having a positive effect on the environment today. Here is an example...at truck stops all across the country, diesel powered 18 wheelers may be idling all night to run the truck’s compressors, to power the driver’s heated cabin, microwave and tv. If the truck stop only had a bit of capital to invest in plug-ins, all that diesel could be electric, and all those diesel carbon emissions would stop. Your donation provides that bit of capital to get a project started, and you become "NetGreen".

WabUfvot5 · 11-01-2006, 02:34 AM

Very cool BigV. I wasn't inferring you were the nobody, rather an entire country (like Switzerland or USA or Canada).

Cyclefrance · 11-01-2006, 09:14 AM

I guess that almost highlights the fundamental problem, while localised programmes may be positive and well-intentioned, without a firm drive for the world as a whole to act then these are not going to solve anything. You do get a sense of feeling that the problem is galloping off into the distance while the world is standing their holding a set of reins wondering if they should be doing something with them - and then, what!

WabUfvot5 · 11-01-2006, 11:49 PM

Kyoto would have been a great first step but we all know what happened with that.

Aliantha · 11-02-2006, 07:37 PM

There has been some discussion about such things in our parliament here also. Our conservative leader says he'll sign up as long as the big nations do because if we do and the others don't, we'll be at a disadvantage trade wise.

Kyoto would be nice.

Cyclefrance · 11-03-2006, 06:49 PM

There was a debate last night on our TV - most sensible comment was why taxes when legislation would be more effective and better focussed? Taxes leave you thinking that it's just the government trying to find another way to fill the coffers.

Also a sensible comment that as major consuming nations, Britain and others of a similar appetite could do more to bring the likes of China, India and the Far East producing economies into line if they insisted on imported goods meeting stricter guidelines on energy efficiency and the absence or heavy limitation of eco-harmful substances and practices.

Oh, and, of course how our Tone is now going to save the world from pollution - just like he saved the world from terror, freed Iraq, and saved our Health Service. If anything says that this is doomed to certain failure then his desire to lead the cause does it in one fell swoop...

11-03-2006, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebediah

I say the idea is worth it if only to blame the USA in the future when the world is covered in smog

The problem with stuff like this is nobody wants to be the first to do it for the reasons you stated. Nobody wants to be the test subject. What other countries are better suited to do it? Would they do it? Of course any tax is subject to government waste but won't they get it through a different tax if not this one?

Why is it no one blames China? They do more than we do.

WabUfvot5 · 11-03-2006, 09:47 PM

They should. I guess we shoulder the blame because most of what China produces ends up here and the USA is sufficiently advanced to know better. Somehow it's considered acceptable for emerging countries (like China and Brazil) to pollute as needed - although that hardly makes sense to me in a lot of ways.

xoxoxoBruce · 11-04-2006, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV

Are you calling me a nobody?! Ballard, my community, leads the way.

Does that mean you have to leave town to roast your B.S. wieners?

10-31-2006, 12:58 AM	#1
Cyclefrance Pump my ride! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Deep countryside of Surrey , England Posts: 1,890	Green Taxes Big play made by both our parliamentary parties over the last few days/weeks on the need to see a shift towards green taxes - so taxes on gas-guzzling cars, polluting products and services (and those produced at an unacceptable expense to the environment) will rise, while those that are more eco-friendly will fall - tax surpluses will be used to reduce the burden on those that need help, and also to fund programmes to address the pollution issue. It's all down to a detailed study and report that concludes that we need to spend globally 1% of GDP now on appropriate measures if we wish to prevent the disaster that is facing the world as a result of global warming and greenhouse emissions. It's a global issue, but with the likes of China, India and USA so far failing to sign up to any programme, most of us here wonder what we are going to achieve - and it all sounds like another way for our government to increase tax revenue rather than produce a solution that aims fairly and squarely at the problem (and deals with it). It is said that if we cut our emissions here to zero, that would represent only a few days of China's pollution output. Where now? __________________ Always sufficient hills - never sufficient gears

10-31-2006, 03:07 PM	#3
Cyclefrance Pump my ride! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Deep countryside of Surrey , England Posts: 1,890	Well I suppose the governments of the world have to do something - they certainly need to and sooner rather than later, as the longer the delay the bigger the pain. Seems that the Indian sub-continent is taking some note of the problem. As an emerging nation it doesn't want to see it's efforts and progress destroyed for lack of attention to this global problem. Of more concern is the Chinese economy which is expanding at an alarming rate with pollution running in tandem. Apparently China opens a new coal-fired power station every 10 days, and the country is set to surpass the USA as the no.1 polluter in a matter of months rather than years - a dubious accolade! __________________ Always sufficient hills - never sufficient gears

11-01-2006, 09:14 AM	#6
Cyclefrance Pump my ride! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Deep countryside of Surrey , England Posts: 1,890	I guess that almost highlights the fundamental problem, while localised programmes may be positive and well-intentioned, without a firm drive for the world as a whole to act then these are not going to solve anything. You do get a sense of feeling that the problem is galloping off into the distance while the world is standing their holding a set of reins wondering if they should be doing something with them - and then, what! __________________ Always sufficient hills - never sufficient gears

11-02-2006, 07:37 PM	#8
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	There has been some discussion about such things in our parliament here also. Our conservative leader says he'll sign up as long as the big nations do because if we do and the others don't, we'll be at a disadvantage trade wise. Kyoto would be nice. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

11-03-2006, 06:49 PM	#9
Cyclefrance Pump my ride! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Deep countryside of Surrey , England Posts: 1,890	There was a debate last night on our TV - most sensible comment was why taxes when legislation would be more effective and better focussed? Taxes leave you thinking that it's just the government trying to find another way to fill the coffers. Also a sensible comment that as major consuming nations, Britain and others of a similar appetite could do more to bring the likes of China, India and the Far East producing economies into line if they insisted on imported goods meeting stricter guidelines on energy efficiency and the absence or heavy limitation of eco-harmful substances and practices. Oh, and, of course how our Tone is now going to save the world from pollution - just like he saved the world from terror, freed Iraq, and saved our Health Service. If anything says that this is doomed to certain failure then his desire to lead the cause does it in one fell swoop... __________________ Always sufficient hills - never sufficient gears

10-31-2006, 01:58 AM	#2
WabUfvot5 Operations Operative Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 634	I say the idea is worth it if only to blame the USA in the future when the world is covered in smog The problem with stuff like this is nobody wants to be the first to do it for the reasons you stated. Nobody wants to be the test subject. What other countries are better suited to do it? Would they do it? Of course any tax is subject to government waste but won't they get it through a different tax if not this one?

11-01-2006, 02:34 AM	#5
WabUfvot5 Operations Operative Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 634	Very cool BigV. I wasn't inferring you were the nobody, rather an entire country (like Switzerland or USA or Canada).

11-01-2006, 11:49 PM	#7
WabUfvot5 Operations Operative Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 634	Kyoto would have been a great first step but we all know what happened with that.

11-03-2006, 09:47 PM	#11
WabUfvot5 Operations Operative Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 634	They should. I guess we shoulder the blame because most of what China produces ends up here and the USA is sufficiently advanced to know better. Somehow it's considered acceptable for emerging countries (like China and Brazil) to pollute as needed - although that hardly makes sense to me in a lot of ways.

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