Veiled threat...

Cyclefrance · 10-23-2006, 10:10 AM

Not sure if this has reached American shores, but there's a bit of a furore going on over here about whether or not a female muslim teacher should be allowed to wear a veil in class when teaching children and a male is present.

It's dominated the news for a week or so (Madonna's baby adoption and Macca's divorce being the only items to see it off the front pages), and I must admit to wondering what the hell all the fuss is about.

We seem to have gone mad banning crucifix pendant jewellery being worn by Christians at one end of the religious scale to stopping veils being worn by muslim women at the other.

Any views out there on this?

Neat cartoon below to get you into the mood (a fag is another word for a cigarette over here, by the way - just in case you were wondering...):

.

Flint · 10-23-2006, 10:15 AM

If I were a female teacher, I might tattoo "property of Allah" on my forehead and see what reaction that gets...

Spexxvet · 10-23-2006, 10:29 AM

Would I be allowed to teach in a gorilla costume, if I claimed my religion called for me to.

Sundae · 10-23-2006, 10:32 AM

I'm annoyed that this is being given so much press. I've heard the, "It's good that this is up for discussion" line too often - no-one is getting anywhere discussing it, so why don't we just drop it? Am referring to the media here btw, not this thread!

The teaching assistant in question was employed by a C of E school and did not wear a veil at her interview (the panel included a male Director). Therefore I feel she misrepresented herself at interview and the school was right to give her the choice of unveiling or leaving.

I have a colleague of Turkish descent. In that predominately Muslim country, the female teachers do not wear veils in the classroom. It's considered a hindrance to teaching apparently.

Some of the interviews have raised a smile though. Militant Muslim women shrilly declaiming that the veil is no barrier to communication and that they can express themselves perfectly well this way. Baffled looks from their interviewers, who have no visual clue as to their emotions. At least they won't have to worry about being recognised in the supermarket as that woman off the telly.

I'm all for women deciding to veil in the streets if it makes them feel more secure or more in touch with their religion. But it is a form of display, and they should not feel aggrieved when their deliberate decision to isolate themselves from mainstream society is recognised as such.

Flint · 10-23-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

...if I claimed my religion called for me to.

I'm about to get very militant in my devotion to

headsplice · 10-23-2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I'm about to get very militant in my devotion to

Are you going to start flinging meatballs like shuriken and stabbing people with dry pasta? Because honestly, that would be the tastiest holy war, evah!

Flint · 10-23-2006, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by headsplice

...that would be the tastiest holy war, evah!

Tastiness is next to Monstrousness, in my book. (IE, the one true book)

Happy Monkey · 10-23-2006, 01:07 PM

I wonder what FSM's position is on Friday Hotdogs...

Beestie · 10-23-2006, 02:03 PM

Well, here in Kalifornia, the division/separation of Church and State has been tossed aside to allow a two-week indoctrination of school children to the Muslim faith. They must demonstrate an understanding of jihad, the five pillars of Islam and come to terms with Mohammad's status as a messenger of God.

So you are probably asking the wrong country.

Trilby · 10-23-2006, 02:15 PM

I think the veil is a definite hindrance to teaching. Teachers need to be expressive and communicate concepts; children learn by imitation. Plus, I think women in all those yards of cloth look scary--won't kids? What percentage of communication is body language? I used to know...

and SG is right. If she didn't wear the veil during her interview but INTENDED on wearing it to teach, she misrepresented herself.

Trilby · 10-23-2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie

Well, here in Kalifornia, the division/separation of Church and State has been tossed aside to allow a two-week indoctrination of school children to the Muslim faith. They must demonstrate an understanding of jihad, the five pillars of Islam and come to terms with Mohammad's status as a messenger of God.

To quote a lady from California, I'd just say NO.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-23-2006, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclefrance

We seem to have gone mad banning crucifix pendant jewellery being worn by Christians at one end of the religious scale to stopping veils being worn by muslim women at the other.

I'd say that they're both the same end of the religious scale. If it's Christian vs Muslim, where to the eighty-teen other religions fit?.... certainly not in between, if they had a say.

It's more tolerance vs intolerance, I think. Any display of religious preference by the teacher might warp those precious young minds? Well that's silly if they grew up in a house with a tv.

That said, I do agree the veil presents a special problem with communication between a teacher and young children.

Quote:

allowed to wear a veil in class when teaching children and a male is present.

Does that include a male child in the class?

JayMcGee · 10-23-2006, 06:29 PM

The veil isnot a religous symbol. It is an optional culteral symbol.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-23-2006, 06:44 PM

Your absolutely right, Jay, but don't some Muslims feel it's part of their religious training/obligation?

JayMcGee · 10-23-2006, 06:53 PM

why ask me? I'm not a muslim.

ask the Islamic ladiies who insist on wearing the veil. Ask the primary school kids who see a pair of eyes peering out of midnight-black ensemble straight out of Friday the thirteenth....

10-23-2006, 10:10 AM	#1
Cyclefrance Pump my ride! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Deep countryside of Surrey , England Posts: 1,890	Veiled threat... Not sure if this has reached American shores, but there's a bit of a furore going on over here about whether or not a female muslim teacher should be allowed to wear a veil in class when teaching children and a male is present. It's dominated the news for a week or so (Madonna's baby adoption and Macca's divorce being the only items to see it off the front pages), and I must admit to wondering what the hell all the fuss is about. We seem to have gone mad banning crucifix pendant jewellery being worn by Christians at one end of the religious scale to stopping veils being worn by muslim women at the other. Any views out there on this? Neat cartoon below to get you into the mood (a fag is another word for a cigarette over here, by the way - just in case you were wondering...): . Attached Images __________________ Always sufficient hills - never sufficient gears

10-23-2006, 10:15 AM	#2
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	If I were a female teacher, I might tattoo "property of Allah" on my forehead and see what reaction that gets... __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

10-23-2006, 10:29 AM	#3
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	Would I be allowed to teach in a gorilla costume, if I claimed my religion called for me to. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

10-23-2006, 10:32 AM	#4
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	I'm annoyed that this is being given so much press. I've heard the, "It's good that this is up for discussion" line too often - no-one is getting anywhere discussing it, so why don't we just drop it? Am referring to the media here btw, not this thread! The teaching assistant in question was employed by a C of E school and did not wear a veil at her interview (the panel included a male Director). Therefore I feel she misrepresented herself at interview and the school was right to give her the choice of unveiling or leaving. I have a colleague of Turkish descent. In that predominately Muslim country, the female teachers do not wear veils in the classroom. It's considered a hindrance to teaching apparently. Some of the interviews have raised a smile though. Militant Muslim women shrilly declaiming that the veil is no barrier to communication and that they can express themselves perfectly well this way. Baffled looks from their interviewers, who have no visual clue as to their emotions. At least they won't have to worry about being recognised in the supermarket as that woman off the telly. I'm all for women deciding to veil in the streets if it makes them feel more secure or more in touch with their religion. But it is a form of display, and they should not feel aggrieved when their deliberate decision to isolate themselves from mainstream society is recognised as such. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

10-23-2006, 01:07 PM	#8
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	I wonder what FSM's position is on Friday Hotdogs... __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

10-23-2006, 02:03 PM	#9
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	Well, here in Kalifornia, the division/separation of Church and State has been tossed aside to allow a two-week indoctrination of school children to the Muslim faith. They must demonstrate an understanding of jihad, the five pillars of Islam and come to terms with Mohammad's status as a messenger of God. So you are probably asking the wrong country. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

10-23-2006, 02:15 PM	#10
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	I think the veil is a definite hindrance to teaching. Teachers need to be expressive and communicate concepts; children learn by imitation. Plus, I think women in all those yards of cloth look scary--won't kids? What percentage of communication is body language? I used to know... and SG is right. If she didn't wear the veil during her interview but INTENDED on wearing it to teach, she misrepresented herself.

10-23-2006, 06:29 PM	#13
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	The veil isnot a religous symbol. It is an optional culteral symbol. __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

10-23-2006, 06:44 PM	#14
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Your absolutely right, Jay, but don't some Muslims feel it's part of their religious training/obligation? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

10-23-2006, 06:53 PM	#15
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	why ask me? I'm not a muslim. ask the Islamic ladiies who insist on wearing the veil. Ask the primary school kids who see a pair of eyes peering out of midnight-black ensemble straight out of Friday the thirteenth.... __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

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