What Will the Feds Allow *You* to Put on Your Headstone

Elspode · 10-08-2006, 11:56 AM

Dubya said some time back that Wicca isn't a religion. The Pentagon has been stonewalling the addition of the Pentacle as an approved religious symbol for engraving on the headstones of veterans in National Cemeteries. So what think you? Should the government get to decide what expression of religious affiliation should and should not go on the headstone of someone who may have given all they had to give for their country?

The ACLU thinks not. There is a growing tide to get this typically narrowminded restriction changed, but we aren't there yet.

What do ya'll say? Approved religions only? Or freedom of religious expression, even in death? Does it hurt anyone if there's a pent on a headstone?

Bullitt · 10-08-2006, 12:12 PM

We would be hypocrites if we did not allow people to display their religious affiliation. The fed have no right to discern if a religion is "real" or not, our country was founded on religious freedom and not allowing people to express it in this manner is completely opposite to what this country is meant to represent.

Trilby · 10-08-2006, 12:22 PM

Such ignorance! The Pentacle is also a sign of Solomon.

I thought the military was one of the few institutions that was cool with Wicca?

xoxoxoBruce · 10-08-2006, 12:40 PM

I think the hangup is, Hollywood has used the pent as a symbol of evil, mark of the devil. Many people don't know Wiccan* from wicker and might be down on the administration for spending tax money on it.

You can say, well that's their problem that they're ignorant, but if they're voters it becomes the politicians problem. It's a case of doing what's right for a small minority vs political expediency. Of course we all know where that goes.

* even spellcheck doesn't know

Spexxvet · 10-08-2006, 01:03 PM

Even if it were devil worship, there should be freedom to exercise that religion. Religion is religion, after all. Except for idiots that think theirs is the only one.

Flint · 10-08-2006, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Of course we all know where that goes.

I'm expecting to see anti-Halloween legislaton soon.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-08-2006, 01:22 PM

Sure, but that's an alien thought to politicians and the government employees that fear them, Spexx.
You speak of principles, I speak of (low down scum sucking dogs) reality.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-08-2006, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I'm expecting to see anti-Halloween legislaton soon.

Not a chance, Chick is a wacko, and there is way too much money being made on Halloween. It's passed every holiday but Christmas for profits and still growing fast.

Flint · 10-08-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

It's passed every holiday but Christmas for profits and still growing fast.

We can't have the celebration of "evil spirits and human sacrifice" challenging the birth of Christ!

Edit: [/sarcasm]

xoxoxoBruce · 10-08-2006, 01:51 PM

Ah, but it's not a celebration evil spirits and human sacrifice. It was a celebration of the harvest until Boniface stole it for the group he was promoting, Mary and the martyrs, about 600ad.
Then in this past century it was appropriated again for a new group, Hershey and the Mask Makers.

Trilby · 10-08-2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Ah, but it's not a celebration evil spirits and human sacrifice. It was a celebration of the harvest until Boniface stole it for the group he was promoting, Mary and the martyrs, about 600ad.
Then in this past century it was appropriated again for a new group, Hershey and the Mask Makers.

This is why I both Love and sorta am Annoyed by xob. He's always right (god, it's tedious) and has the unEmotional side of things under his thumb...but--BUT! I love a celebration of the Harvest AND of Mary and the martyrs AND Hershey! It makes me feel all dirty inside.

Trilby · 10-08-2006, 02:51 PM

I guess I just love a party.

*ashamed*

wolf · 10-08-2006, 08:37 PM

Not a headstone, but it is an official memorial plaque ...

Circle Sanctuary is very active in the fight for pagan recognition.

One of the problems, of course, is that there are more types of Neo-Pagan practice than Wicca, and not all of the would use the pentacle as a representative sacred symbol.

Quote:

There has been an important development in the Veteran Pentacle Quest!

Although the US Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) still has not approved the Pentacle, Sgt. Stewart is getting the Pentacle on his plaque!

The Nevada Office of Veterans Services announced today that they have taken action to get Sgt. Stewart's plaque with the Pentacle on it produced and installed on the Wall of Heroes at the Northern Nevada Veterans Memorial Cemetery in Fernley, Nevada.

This decision was made after the Nevada Attorney General's Office
determined that the state has sole discretion over state veteran cemeteries.

Tim Tetz, the Executive Director of the Nevada Office of Veterans Services, said in a press release issued today: "I promised his widow and many others that we would diligently pursue every option to make certain Sgt. Stewart received recognition for his contributions as an Army soldier, a Nevadan, and an American hero."

Roberta Stewart was ecstatic and expressed thanks: "Thank you and the
State of Nevada for your on-going support on this issue and for standing up and doing the right thing by honoring my husband for his and our family's sacrifices. It gives me great peace to know my husband did not die in vain and I hope that the VA will follow suit and approve the Wiccan emblem for its National Cemetery Administration' s emblem of belief list so that soldiers of all faiths can be honored equally."

Rev. Selena Fox, Senior Minister of Circle Sanctuary, also was delighted by the news: "I am thrilled that the State of Nevada stepped in and took action so that Sgt. Stewart is properly honored. The service and sacrifice of Sgt. Stewart and the US Constitution should not have been ignored due to bureaucratic roadblocks. It is time for the VA to approve the Pentacle for veteran grave markers and stop its pattern of disregard, delay, and discrimination against the Wiccan religion, Wiccan veterans, and their families."

Although the US Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) has had requests for more than nine years to add the Pentacle to the list of emblems of belief that can be included on the headstones, markers, and plaques they issue for deceased veterans, it has failed to do so. Thus far, the VA has continued to maintain that it needs to revise its procedures again, an excuse it has repeatedly used in the past in response to Wiccans requesting that the Pentacle be added to the list. During the nine-year period of keeping the Pentacle pending, the VA has approved emblems of belief for six other religions and philosophies.

Americans United for Separation of Church and State is representing Roberta Stewart and Circle Sanctuary. Barry Lynn, Executive Director of Americans United, praised Nevada Governor Kenny C. Guinn for the move and called on VA officials to stop dragging their feet. He said other Wiccan families are still waiting for the VA to add the Pentacle to their list of emblems of belief. Lynn says "We will continue to press this issue until the federal government gives a favorable response."

More information about the Veteran Pentacle Quest is on-line:
http://www.circlesanctuary.org/liberty/veteranpentacle

Please spread the news -- forward to lists, websites, media sources, blogs, and others who may be interested. Thanks!

Circle Times: Wednesday, September 13, 2006

Elspode · 10-08-2006, 10:21 PM

If any government entity ought to understand Paganism, it is definitely Nevada. They're to be commended for their groundbreaking action, but this is a national issue, and it needs to be solved.

Circle Sanctuary has been at the fore of this battle for some time now, and everyone who believes in religious freedom owes them a big "thanks".

9th Engineer · 10-08-2006, 10:44 PM

Why would there be a religious symbol of any sort on something like that? Seems rather irrelevant to the issue at hand to me...

10-08-2006, 11:56 AM	#1
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	*What Will the Feds Allow You* to Put on Your Headstone** Dubya said some time back that Wicca isn't a religion. The Pentagon has been stonewalling the addition of the Pentacle as an approved religious symbol for engraving on the headstones of veterans in National Cemeteries. So what think you? Should the government get to decide what expression of religious affiliation should and should not go on the headstone of someone who may have given all they had to give for their country? The ACLU thinks not. There is a growing tide to get this typically narrowminded restriction changed, but we aren't there yet. What do ya'll say? Approved religions only? Or freedom of religious expression, even in death? Does it hurt anyone if there's a pent on a headstone? __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

10-08-2006, 12:12 PM	#2
Bullitt This is a fully functional babe lair Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,324	We would be hypocrites if we did not allow people to display their religious affiliation. The fed have no right to discern if a religion is "real" or not, our country was founded on religious freedom and not allowing people to express it in this manner is completely opposite to what this country is meant to represent. __________________ Kiss my white Irish ass.

10-08-2006, 12:40 PM	#4
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I think the hangup is, Hollywood has used the pent as a symbol of evil, mark of the devil. Many people don't know Wiccan* from wicker and might be down on the administration for spending tax money on it. You can say, well that's their problem that they're ignorant, but if they're voters it becomes the politicians problem. It's a case of doing what's right for a small minority vs political expediency. Of course we all know where that goes. * even spellcheck doesn't know __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

10-08-2006, 01:03 PM	#5
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	Even if it were devil worship, there should be freedom to exercise that religion. Religion is religion, after all. Except for idiots that think theirs is the only one. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

10-08-2006, 01:22 PM	#7
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Sure, but that's an alien thought to politicians and the government employees that fear them, Spexx. You speak of principles, I speak of (low down scum sucking dogs) reality. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

10-08-2006, 12:22 PM	#3
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	Such ignorance! The Pentacle is also a sign of Solomon. I thought the military was one of the few institutions that was cool with Wicca?

10-08-2006, 01:51 PM	#10
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Ah, but it's not a celebration evil spirits and human sacrifice. It was a celebration of the harvest until Boniface stole it for the group he was promoting, Mary and the martyrs, about 600ad. Then in this past century it was appropriated again for a new group, Hershey and the Mask Makers. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

10-08-2006, 02:51 PM	#12
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	I guess I just love a party. ashamed

10-08-2006, 10:21 PM	#14
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	If any government entity ought to understand Paganism, it is definitely Nevada. They're to be commended for their groundbreaking action, but this is a national issue, and it needs to be solved. Circle Sanctuary has been at the fore of this battle for some time now, and everyone who believes in religious freedom owes them a big "thanks". __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

10-08-2006, 10:44 PM	#15
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	Why would there be a religious symbol of any sort on something like that? Seems rather irrelevant to the issue at hand to me... __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

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