The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Politics
FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Politics Where we learn not to think less of others who don't share our views

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-08-2007, 07:11 AM   #1
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
Why Germans Supported Hitler

This Jacob Hornberger article explains why the German people didn't see Hitler as the monster history has painted in retrospect. The parallels with FDR and the methods adopted by GWB are intriguing.
Quote:
~snip~
After all, it’s one thing to look at Nazi Germany retrospectively and from the vantage point of an outside citizen who has heard since childhood about the death camps and of Hitler’s monstrous nature. We look at those grainy films of Hitler delivering his bombastic speeches and our automatic reaction is that we would have never supported the man and his political party. But it’s quite another thing to place one’s self in the shoes of an ordinary German citizen and ask, “What would I have done?”

What we often forget is that many Germans did not support Hitler and the Nazis at the start of the 1930s. Keep in mind that in the 1932 presidential election, Hitler received only 30.1 percent of the national vote. In the subsequent run-off election, he received only 36.8 percent of the vote. It wasn’t until President Hindenburg appointed him as chancellor in 1933 that Hitler began consolidating power.

Among the major factors that motivated Germans to support Hitler during the 1930s was the tremendous economic crisis known as the Great Depression, which had struck Germany as hard as it had the United States and other parts of the world. What did many Germans do in response to the Great Depression? They did the same thing that many Americans did — they looked for a strong leader to get them out of the economic crisis.

Hitler and Franklin Roosevelt
In fact, there is a remarkable similarity between the economic policies that Hitler implemented and those that Franklin Roosevelt enacted. Keep in mind, first of all, that the German National Socialists were strong believers in Social Security, which Roosevelt introduced to the United States as part of his New Deal. Keep in mind also that the Nazis were strong believers in such other socialist schemes as public (i.e., government) schooling and national health care. In fact, my hunch is that very few Americans realize that Social Security, public schooling, Medicare, and Medicaid have their ideological roots in German socialism.

Hitler and Roosevelt also shared a common commitment to such programs as government-business partnerships. In fact, until the Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional, Roosevelt’s National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA), which cartelized American industry, along with his “Blue Eagle” propaganda campaign, was the type of economic fascism that Hitler himself was embracing in Germany (as fascist ruler Benito Mussolini was also doing in Italy).

As John Toland points out in his book Adolf Hitler, “Hitler had genuine admiration for the decisive manner in which the President had taken over the reins of government. ‘I have sympathy for Mr. Roosevelt,’ he told a correspondent of the New York Times two months later, ‘because he marches straight toward his objectives over Congress, lobbies and bureaucracy.’ Hitler went on to note that he was the sole leader in Europe who expressed ‘understanding of the methods and motives of President Roosevelt.’”

As Srdja Trifkovic, foreign-affairs editor for Chronicles magazine, stated in his article “FDR and Mussolini: A Tale of Two Fascists”, Roosevelt and his ‘Brain Trust,’ the architects of the New Deal, were fascinated by Italy’s fascism — a term which was not pejorative at the time. In America, it was seen as a form of economic nationalism built around consensus planning by the established elites in government, business, and labor.

Both Hitler and Roosevelt also believed in massive injections of government spending in both the social-welfare sector and the military-industrial sector as a way to bring economic prosperity to their respective nations. As the famed economist John Kenneth Galbraith put it,

Hitler also anticipated modern economic policy ... by recognizing that a rapid approach to full employment was only possible if it was combined with wage and price controls. That a nation oppressed by economic fear would respond to Hitler as Americans did to F.D.R. is not surprising.

One of Hitler’s proudest accomplishments was the construction of the national autobahn system, a massive socialist public-works project that ultimately became the model for the interstate highway system in the United States.

By the latter part of the 1930s, many Germans had the same perception about Hitler that many Americans had about Roosevelt. They honestly believed that Hitler was bringing Germany out of the Depression. For the first time since the Treaty of Versailles, the treaty that had ended World War I with humiliating terms for Germany, the German people were regaining a sense of pride in themselves and in their nation, and they were giving the credit to Hitler’s strong leadership in time of deep national crisis.
Toland points out in his Hitler biography that Germans weren’t the only ones who admired Hitler during the 1930s:

Churchill had once paid a grudging compliment to the Führer in a letter to the Times: “I have always said that I hoped if Great Britain were beaten in a war we should find a Hitler who would lead us back to our rightful place among nations.”

Hitler was a strong believer in national service, especially for German young people. That was what the Hitler Youth was all about — inculcating in young people the notion that they owed a duty to devote at least part of their lives to society. It was an idea also resonating in the collectivist atmosphere that was permeating the United States during the 1930s.

~snip~

Hitler’s war on terrorism
One of the most searing events in German history occurred soon after Hitler took office. On February 27, 1933, in what easily could be termed the 9/11 terrorist attack of that time, German terrorists fire-bombed the German parliament building. It shouldn’t surprise anyone that Adolf Hitler, one of the strongest political leaders in history, would declare war on terrorism and ask the German parliament (the Reichstag) to give him temporary emergency powers to fight the terrorists. Passionately claiming that such powers were necessary to protect the freedom and well-being of the German people, Hitler persuaded the German legislators to give him the emergency powers he needed to confront the terrorist crisis. What became known as the Enabling Act allowed Hitler to suspend civil liberties “temporarily,” that is, until the crisis had passed. Not surprisingly, however, the threat of terrorism never subsided and Hitler’s “temporary” emergency powers, which were periodically renewed by the Reichstag, were still in effect when he took his own life some 12 years later.

Is it so surprising that ordinary German citizens were willing to support their government’s suspension of civil liberties in response to the threat of terrorism, especially after the terrorist strike on the Reichstag?
During the 1930s, the United States faced the Great Depression, and many Americans were willing to accede to Roosevelt’s assumption of massive emergency powers, including the power to control economic activity and also to nationalize and confiscate people’s gold.

During the Cold War, the fear of communism induced Americans to permit their government to collect massive amounts of income taxes to fund the military-industrial complex and to let U.S. officials send more than 100,000 American soldiers to their deaths in undeclared wars in Korea and Vietnam.
Since the 9/11 attacks, Americans have been more than willing for their government to infringe on vital civil liberties, including habeas corpus, involve the nation in an undeclared and unprovoked war on Iraq, and spend ever-growing amounts of money on the military-industrial complex, all in the name of the “war on terrorism.”
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 07:16 AM   #2
piercehawkeye45
Franklin Pierce
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,695
I read this a few days ago, VERY good article.

I personally think I would have supported Hitler since of the depression and the treatment they got from Britain and France after the war but maybe not, probably depends on my age when he came to power.
piercehawkeye45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 07:24 AM   #3
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
I'm not sure the age thing would be all that important. All the Germans were suffering, except the very rural folks.
It was the same here. One of my Grandfathers worked in a rope factory and had hard times whereas my other Grandfather was largely self sufficient. Butter & egg money was scarce, and the clothing a little thin, but always food on the table.
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 07:30 AM   #4
piercehawkeye45
Franklin Pierce
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,695
I just mentioned the age thing because my political views have changed tremendously in the past five years not because how hard I was hit economically, which you are right about. I was a Bush supporter for most of high school and believed in higher power controlling the masses.

I changed with maturity and hate the idea of giving up liberties for protection.

If Bush came into power now I would never have supported him. While I would be in a completely different situation in Germany, the age could determine my loyalty.
piercehawkeye45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 07:34 AM   #5
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
Good old "Bumper" Hornberger; my friends have worked on all sorts of projects with him and I have seen him speak and met him on several occasions.

He has long pursued his theory that the Libertarian Party is not successful because it is not "pure" enough. If he was here he would be telling us why Radar is not a "real" Libertarian.
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 08:39 AM   #6
Griff
still says videotape
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 26,813
I like Hornberger's writing a lot (no suprise there). Many of us really don't think Bush is dangerous, thinking that the American system is too resilient to fall to tyranny. What is forgotten is that, while civil liberties have mostly been protected, government has become ubiquitous in our daily lives. We may or may not yet have an Evil Empire underway, but we are building Kafkaesque bureaucracies in our vain attempts to control each other.
__________________
If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Griff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 08:39 AM   #7
freshnesschronic
Professor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,555
I thought it was because of....brainwashing? No??

Great article! News to me.
freshnesschronic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 10:11 AM   #8
skysidhe
~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,828
There has been so many comparisons. Just one google search tells it all.
skysidhe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 01:31 PM   #9
barefoot serpent
go ahead, abbrev. it
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 2,623
Hitler also designed a People's Vehicle -- an affordable mode of transportation -- the Volkswagen.
__________________
Chooses rowing vs. wading
barefoot serpent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 03:15 PM   #10
glatt
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 27,717
And all this time I thought Ferdinand Porsche designed it.
glatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 04:06 PM   #11
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
He did, sort of. Actually he copied the concept and a dozen design features of the Czech Tatra. When Tatra sued, Hitler told Porsche, not to worry, I'll make that problem go away. After the war VW had to settle with Tatra.
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 04:39 PM   #12
glatt
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 27,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
he copied the concept and a dozen design features of the Czech Tatra.

Very interesting.
glatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 06:03 PM   #13
spudcon
Beware of potatoes
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 2,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff View Post
I like Hornberger's writing a lot (no suprise there). Many of us really don't think Bush is dangerous, thinking that the American system is too resilient to fall to tyranny. What is forgotten is that, while civil liberties have mostly been protected, government has become ubiquitous in our daily lives. We may or may not yet have an Evil Empire underway, but we are building Kafkaesque bureaucracies in our vain attempts to control each other.
Bravo Griff!
spudcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 06:10 PM   #14
rkzenrage
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I see no difference between what BushCo. wants and what Hitler did.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 06:17 PM   #15
DanaC
We have to go back, Kate!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
I really think the humiliating and financially devastating terms of the Versailles treaty was a big, big factor. Much of Hitler's advances were sold in terms of reclaiming territories, to a nation who'd seen their historic enemy dancing on the ashes of their defeat. A great nation, their greatness still in living memory for many, forced to accept total culpability for a world war.

I sometimes wonder: if Germany had been in the same state of economic collapse, but without the humiliation of Versailles, would Hitler have been able to get people behind him as effectively as he did? if Germany had been utterly humiliated at Versailles, but allowed (assisted in) some economic recovery prior to Hitler's rise, would he have risen as far? Could either one of these factors,on their own, be enough to make Hitler's success possible.
DanaC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:22 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.