What's the best move for the money?

[Nic Name]

Click on the pic for the hidden answer.

[Griff]

Great, now they're making targets out of honest surveyors. I prefer it when the aggression is justified. " It was awful nice of you to build a garage for your neighbor..."

[headsplice]

This tastes bad. I'm not sure why but it just seems sneaky and of dubious legality. I think it's because it's a guy that is dressed like a civilian who is helping hand out speeding tickets. I wish I could hand out tickets to jackass cops who speed, run red lights, and slap my friends around. grrrrrrr.

I can't say I'm really disappointed in this. I was, at first. Until I realized that <b>speeding is illegal</b>. And thousands of people die in car accidents each year that could have been avoided if someone wasn't speeding.

The law's the law. If you break it, you might be punished. Don't be pissed off because you got caught when it wasn't made abundantly clear that a cop was around. Don't want the ticket, don't break the law.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by dhamsaic
The law's the law. If you break it, you might be punished. Don't be pissed off because you got caught when it wasn't made abundantly clear that a cop was around. Don't want the ticket, don't break the law.

Agreed.

As I see it, these are merely undercover cops in a different role than we generally assume. And it's out in public, so no one's privacy is being violated.

Besides...big brother is always watching you anyway.

[Griff]

Next time I go out surveying, I'm gonna wear a state trooper costume. It will make my job easier since nobody will question my right to be there or give me any crap.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by Griff
Next time I go out surveying, I'm gonna wear a state trooper costume. It will make my job easier since nobody will question my right to be there or give me any crap.

But then you could get busted for impersonating an officer.

[Xugumad]

This tastes bad. I'm not sure why but it just seems sneaky and of dubious legality.

Two things: not my personal opinion, merely cultural observations. In the US, some people seem to hold the belief that speeding is a God-given right, or some sort of privilege that smart people simply get away with. Populist state laws, intended to appeal to drivers, and thus favour incumbent politicians, seek to restrict the amount of speed checking done by the police, and to impose limitations on how it can be done. Often, signs have to point out where radar checking is done, or where speed is monitored by aircraft. Automatized radar traps seem to be rare. In conversation with drivers, many seem upset and annoyed that the police would employ 'sneaky' (see the above wording) methods to catch speeding drivers. And, as dhamsaic said, I am always speechless, since it's a method of checking illegality without causing any harm to anyone in the process. Whilst spying on everyone's phone conversations to find out if you are a criminal has serious repercussions, checking everybody's speed does not. Questioning the legality of such checks is particularly strange, since it implies that there is some sort of social contract going on between law enforcement and the people: apparently you can only catch illegal actions if you make sure beforehand that the people committing those actions know that you're there.

Nonetheless, those methods are nothing compared to what is done in Europe. Automatic radar traps are the norm, your speed is measured, a photograph immediately/automatically taken, then processed, and your fine sent to your home address via mail. Simple and effective. Radar traps are not usually announced in advance ("slow down here, then continue speeding"), and often they are ingeniously hidden. The best I've ever seen looked like a trash can standing by the roadside next to a highway exit in Germany, where people were likely to speed up to enter traffic. For obvious reasons, there is a speed limit on such an onramp, to avoid crashing into highway traffic that may not see you in time. The trashcan was big and grey, and looked a bit out of whack. On very close inspection, it had a grille of some sort on its side. It had a radar trap built into it, and was chained to the ground.

X.

[Griff]

First off, I'm not a speeder. I drive small Nissan pickup that just isn't built for speed. I take great pleasure in seeing dangerous drivers busted. However, I like my police up front and in uniform. Playing surveyor is probably a great revenue enhancer, but I doubt it slows anyone down. Put a trooper in a marked car somewhere near the work area and people will slow down. I regard this seemingly victimless affair as part of an overall change in policing from an open know your local cop methodology, built on trust, to a far more sinister, you never know when you are being watched methodology, built on deceit. It blurs the line between the good guys and the bad. Is it a big step from here to undercover cops in sports cars challenging drivers to race them, when cops already sell drugs and prostitutes?


Nonetheless, those methods are nothing compared to what is done in Europe. Automatic radar traps are the norm, your speed is measured, a photograph immediately/automatically taken, then processed, and your fine sent to your home address via mail. Simple and effective. I'm not real comfortable with the next logical step, tracking citizens movements, which in post 9/11 America is not too far fetched.

just one paranoids opinion Griff

[juju]

Originally posted by Xugumad


Two things: not my personal opinion, merely cultural observations. In the US, some people seem to hold the belief that speeding is a God-given right, or some sort of privilege that smart people simply get away with.

It's true, I deal with this every day. I'm one of those "weird" people who actually try to go the speed limit. I don't go slow; I stay within 1-3 mph over or under the speed limit. In my country, I am a freak and a reject because of this.

People are constantly tailgating me or passing me going 10 miles an hour over the speed limit. I'm very vengeful, too. If someone tailgates me I slow down to like 20-30 mph below the speed limit. It really pisses them off, but I think they deserve it for not passing me.

I'm sure if I lived in a big city, i'd be forced to speed on a daily basis just to keep up with the flow of the traffic. My city is fairly small, though.

[Undertoad]

Where's russotto dammit?

Part of the problem is that Europe is on average about 10 times as densely populated as the US.

When the US instituted a national speed limit, it was about as ridiculous a concept as could be imagined, for certain states. Like Nevada, where you could drive for 4 hours in a straight line and not see anyone else. The defacto limit was probably twice the actual lmit on some of those roads.

The people rejected the national speed limit via civil disobedience. In places like Nevada, only about 5% of the cars drove 55. In places like northern Jersey, where the population is as dense as, say, Belgium, the compliance level was closer to 20%.

The people spoke loudly with their form of civil disobedience, and when they speak that loudly, they are sending a strong message. In this case it was more than preference: it was productivity. Cut 10% off the time to truck stuff across a state, and it makes things cheaper, opens up possibilities. Get people to work a little faster, and you can expand your possible employee base a few miles.

The highly individualistic nature of Americans allows them to send messages to the lawmakers through their casual law-breaking.

Lastly, with my W-rated tires and $1000 suspension, I'm going to tool up the road at whatever rate I please, and I'm not going to hurt myself or others. (I only tear out if the road is basically deserted, so get off yer high horse.)

[warch]

Did anyone else flash on the Village People?

I'm all for slowing down all around.

But what if you weren't speeding? I have been pulled over by the law for no reason other than the car we were driving was profiled- an out of state, obvious rental. We were not speeding, but the cop said we were. It wasn't a road block but a team of two Kansas trooper cars on a sweep. We got the full interior and trunk search. Drug dogs on the front lines of the war. We were too baffled and freaked to be coherent resistent libertarians. "Mind if we look in the back?" "uh, no officer".(with a gun and the ability to totally mess up my life if pissed off) Nothing to find, no ticket, no violation, (whew! even though the initial stop was for speeding) and we were sent on our way after a hour. But the car was a rental, who knew what the hell was in the trunk. And if the gun says we were speeding we were speeding.

In a similar incident some friends driving a van (of course) were stopped in New Mexico for a drug sniff and the cop kept saying "The dog is indicating something"...But after a very long, complete search, there were no drugs found. It was finally decided that it was the rather odiferous patchouli oil favored by one of the young male passengers-forever to be razzed about his illegal pimp oil.

Eh, I'm all about speeding in the middle of nowhere with no one around. No problem with that.

But understand that you are taking a risk. You are knowingly breaking a law. So yeah, it sucks if you get caught - but that's <b>your</b> fault.

[Griff]

I got hung up on in a supposed DWI check point when we were in Seneca Falls. Who knows what they were really up to? I may be from the country but I don't think you need 20 odd State Troopers and Local Police to check for drunks nor would the troopers be talking to passengers rather than drivers. We were on the front end of the traffic mess they made so it cost us maybe fifteen minutes, but the line we passed going the other way was a good mile long. So using the DWI check point as an opportunity they got to do an eyeball search of a couple hundred vehicles/passengers. Thats why we can't set aside our rights for ideas even as good as keeping the roads drunk free. If we smelled of patchouli or clove you can bet we'd have been doing the white line dance at least until a K-9 unit happened by.

[Griff]

Originally posted by Undertoad


The highly individualistic nature of Americans allows them to send messages to the lawmakers through their casual law-breaking.

Lastly, with my W-rated tires and $1000 suspension, I'm going to tool up the road at whatever rate I please, and I'm not going to hurt myself or others. (I only tear out if the road is basically deserted, so get off yer high horse.)

I have no problem with that as long as you recognize jujus (and everyone elses) right to life. Speed limits are generally too low, especially in the West and most interstates. Difference in speed is where the danger lies, so the state makes roads more dangerous when posted limits cause law abiding drivers to drive far below the average. Dangerous drivers are the ones who piss me off and they cannot be easily identified with traffic cameras and what not. You know the types tailgaters, folks that weave through traffic, kids playing traffic tag... As annoying as tw could be he referred to driving as a team sport, there is some kernal of truth to that.