01/20/03: The Face Thing

juju · 01-21-2003, 12:21 AM

When I was a witch, there were all sorts of amazing things I thought I could do. All of them were basically unprovable to anyone scientifically. We had a rather twisted line of logic to counter this with, though. "Magic isn't something you can prove to somebody else. You have to prove it to yourself." Sounds almost noble, doesn't it?

There is one thing, though, that I always found I could reproduce with anybody. You take two people, and have them sit down across from each other. Each person stares into the eyes of the other person, and just waits. You don't break eye contact, and you've got to try to look deeply into their eyes. After a while, you get that blurred vision that comes with staring at something for too long. Go with it, allow it happen. Keep looking into their eyes. Eventually, the blurry vision will go away, and their face will begin to change into someone else's! It's pretty freaky. You're looking at someone, and they have another person's face, and it's crystal clear.

Of course we claimed that the faces people saw was who their parter was in their former lives. It just made sense. Most people freaked out, gasped, and looked away, which ended the whole thing. But if you just let the illusion happen, it got easier, and you could see their face morph into lots of other faces, too.

Today, I believe that the human brain often sees what it wants to see. And this is a fine, fine example of that. At any rate, has anyone seen any psychologial journals that this phenemenon has been mentioned in?

That Guy · 01-21-2003, 01:43 AM

We used to do that, and it would produce the person's "aura." That is, the person's field of color that surrounds them. I never had a clue as to what any of the colors meant, but it seemed interesting at the time. Stare at anything long enough, and the light surrounding it will eventually tamper with your field of perception (given that you don't blink). Same concept, I'm sure. period. period. (I'm sure the punctuation thing could continue infinitely. period.)

juju · 01-21-2003, 01:47 AM

Auugh!! :)

But yeah, I bet if you stare at something long enough, you can make yourself see nearly anything. I've never really heard anyone else talk about this. It seems to be a relatively unknown phenomenon.

wolf · 01-21-2003, 02:12 AM

Actually, it depends on who you're hanging out with as to whether you'll talk about it.

A lot of people just plain don't, figuring that any perceptual distortion has GOT to mean they're nuts.

Interesting phenomena, indeed. I don't know that it has actually been studied or reported on. I don't know that a study could be developed to test it reliably.

I've seen a fair amount of reporting in new age publications on things like auras, and have played with that myself, but it seems to be an area largely untapped by the scientific community (not that I actually consider psychology to be a science, per se. I take the position that it is an ART.)

juju · 01-21-2003, 02:26 AM

It's funny you mention that. I've always felt that psychology wasn't a science, since you can't objectively prove what someone is thinking. And although some psychologists measure behavior, most measure essentially unprovable things.

To my consternation, though, most people get very offended when I advance this opinion. At the very least, they think I'm being ridiculous. I guess it's all in the way you say it. I just think it's terrible that psychologists are allowed to testify in courts, as if they have the same credibilty as real scientists.

That's not to say they don't help people, they do. Just that most of the things they study can't be objectively proven. Doesn't mean those things don't exist.

juju · 01-21-2003, 02:31 AM

I really like the idea of it being an art, though. That's very nice. It keeps the profession noble, while removing some of it's infallibility.

Whit · 01-21-2003, 10:40 PM

     Actually, I think there is a slight misconception. I've been called in for Petit Jury Duty, and the judge told us to take the training of the witnesses into account, but not to assume everthing they say is the ironclad truth. Just a highly informed opinion. Point being, all "expert opinions" are supposed to be treated as just that, an opinion of someone who is an expert in the field.

     For the record, it was a land lawsuit and the witness was surveyer who had estimated the value of the land.

     By the by, I can't believe you people would bother to discuss puncuation when you don't even bother to indent your paragraphs. P'shaw. ;)

russotto · 01-22-2003, 01:48 PM

If I stare at something too long, my contact lenses fall out. Anything after that is definitely perceptual distortion (I have a -3.5 prescription in my better eye)

Bitman · 01-24-2003, 07:11 PM

I don't have direct experience with your devil cults, so I don't know what the 'official' effect looks like. But I've seen aura around inanimate objects. Its more common name is "persistence of vision."

Also, psychology is a science in that your brain is thinking things, and feeling things, and there are processes going on. But we don't have any technological means to detect and measure any of these, so we can't know what's going on. So it's also an art form, reading peoples' words and actions, and trying to infer what led to those.

elSicomoro · 01-24-2003, 07:27 PM

I consider psychology to be a science, though my degree says "Bachelor of Arts."

Remember juju, there is no proof in science. Only support of theories, hence why psychologists use various tools (such as ANOVA) to try and support theories to the point that they are statistically significant.

juju · 01-24-2003, 10:01 PM

Wrong. Completely wrong.

Why are you blatantly spreading lies?! I alone hold the truth.. all would be lost without me. My ideas are like shining stars in the night, all others are guided by my divine wisdom. Those who do not follow my north star of eternal wisdom shall surely become lost amid the sea of ignorace. Follow me, my bretheren! Yea, verily, I will show you the way.

::shakes head:: what the. .? Sorry 'bout that. Don't know what came over me! :)

For God's sakes it's spreading!!

elSicomoro · 01-24-2003, 10:05 PM

It hurts being an Arkansan, doesn't it, Juju?

juju · 01-24-2003, 11:06 PM

Sometimes.

wolf · 01-25-2003, 01:24 AM

Find one of your old psychology textbooks.

Look at it.

Usually around the first or second chapter, often one of the longer chapters in the book, there is an extended discussion of one thing. "Why Psychology is a Science." That, or something similar is often the name of that particular chapter.

Psychology goes overboard trying to prove/justify it's existence as a science. Why is that?

To divorce itself from the dark ages of voodoo, witchcraft, shamanism, and mesmerism ... to make it respectable in the eyes of polite society ...

"We're not fiddling around in the dark with people's emotions here. THIS IS SCIENCE."

So tell me, when was the last time anyone open a textbook of say, Physics or Chemistry, that had a chapter entitled "Why Physicis is a Science."

Psychology is art.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Oh, and Syc ... I'll see your Bachelors and raise you my Masters ... they are "of Arts" merely as a consequence of the programs we respectively went to. There are schools that offer MS in Clinical Psych as well.

'Wolf
----------
"Spiritualists and Shamans do the same job psychologists and psyciatrists do, using the same tools, and achieving about the same results." --- E. Fuller Torrey, MD Mind Games

Griff · 01-25-2003, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
Wrong. Completely wrong.

Why are you blatantly spreading lies?! I alone hold the truth.. all would be lost without me. My ideas are like shining stars in the night, all others are guided by my divine wisdom. Those who do not follow my north star of eternal wisdom shall surely become lost amid the sea of ignorace. Follow me, my bretheren! Yea, verily, I will show you the way.

::shakes head:: what the. .? Sorry 'bout that. Don't know what came over me! :)

For God's sakes it's spreading!!

Isolate that man! Careful juju one "religous" atheist is more than enough here. ;)

01-21-2003, 12:21 AM	#1
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	01/20/03: The Face Thing When I was a witch, there were all sorts of amazing things I thought I could do. All of them were basically unprovable to anyone scientifically. We had a rather twisted line of logic to counter this with, though. "Magic isn't something you can prove to somebody else. You have to prove it to yourself." Sounds almost noble, doesn't it? There is one thing, though, that I always found I could reproduce with anybody. You take two people, and have them sit down across from each other. Each person stares into the eyes of the other person, and just waits. You don't break eye contact, and you've got to try to look deeply into their eyes. After a while, you get that blurred vision that comes with staring at something for too long. Go with it, allow it happen. Keep looking into their eyes. Eventually, the blurry vision will go away, and their face will begin to change into someone else's! It's pretty freaky. You're looking at someone, and they have another person's face, and it's crystal clear. Of course we claimed that the faces people saw was who their parter was in their former lives. It just made sense. Most people freaked out, gasped, and looked away, which ended the whole thing. But if you just let the illusion happen, it got easier, and you could see their face morph into lots of other faces, too. Today, I believe that the human brain often sees what it wants to see. And this is a fine, fine example of that. At any rate, has anyone seen any psychologial journals that this phenemenon has been mentioned in? Last edited by juju; 01-21-2003 at 12:24 AM.

01-21-2003, 01:47 AM	#3
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Auugh!! :) But yeah, I bet if you stare at something long enough, you can make yourself see nearly anything. I've never really heard anyone else talk about this. It seems to be a relatively unknown phenomenon. Last edited by juju; 01-21-2003 at 01:50 AM.

01-21-2003, 02:12 AM	#4
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Actually, it depends on who you're hanging out with as to whether you'll talk about it. A lot of people just plain don't, figuring that any perceptual distortion has GOT to mean they're nuts. Interesting phenomena, indeed. I don't know that it has actually been studied or reported on. I don't know that a study could be developed to test it reliably. I've seen a fair amount of reporting in new age publications on things like auras, and have played with that myself, but it seems to be an area largely untapped by the scientific community (not that I actually consider psychology to be a science, per se. I take the position that it is an ART.) __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

01-21-2003, 10:40 PM	#7
Whit Umm ... yeah. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 949	Actually, I think there is a slight misconception. I've been called in for Petit Jury Duty, and the judge told us to take the training of the witnesses into account, but not to assume everthing they say is the ironclad truth. Just a highly informed opinion. Point being, all "expert opinions" are supposed to be treated as just that, an opinion of someone who is an expert in the field. For the record, it was a land lawsuit and the witness was surveyer who had estimated the value of the land. By the by, I can't believe you people would bother to discuss puncuation when you don't even bother to indent your paragraphs. P'shaw. ;) __________________ A friend will help you move. A true friend will help you move a body.

01-24-2003, 10:01 PM	#11
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Wrong. Completely wrong. Why are you blatantly spreading lies?! I alone hold the truth.. all would be lost without me. My ideas are like shining stars in the night, all others are guided by my divine wisdom. Those who do not follow my north star of eternal wisdom shall surely become lost amid the sea of ignorace. Follow me, my bretheren! Yea, verily, I will show you the way. ::shakes head:: what the. .? Sorry 'bout that. Don't know what came over me! :) For God's sakes it's spreading!! Last edited by juju; 01-24-2003 at 10:05 PM.

01-21-2003, 01:43 AM	#2
That Guy He who reads, sometimes writes. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: at the keyboard Posts: 791	We used to do that, and it would produce the person's "aura." That is, the person's field of color that surrounds them. I never had a clue as to what any of the colors meant, but it seemed interesting at the time. Stare at anything long enough, and the light surrounding it will eventually tamper with your field of perception (given that you don't blink). Same concept, I'm sure. period. period. (I'm sure the punctuation thing could continue infinitely. period.)

01-21-2003, 02:26 AM	#5
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	It's funny you mention that. I've always felt that psychology wasn't a science, since you can't objectively prove what someone is thinking. And although some psychologists measure behavior, most measure essentially unprovable things. To my consternation, though, most people get very offended when I advance this opinion. At the very least, they think I'm being ridiculous. I guess it's all in the way you say it. I just think it's terrible that psychologists are allowed to testify in courts, as if they have the same credibilty as real scientists. That's not to say they don't help people, they do. Just that most of the things they study can't be objectively proven. Doesn't mean those things don't exist.

01-21-2003, 02:31 AM	#6
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	I really like the idea of it being an art, though. That's very nice. It keeps the profession noble, while removing some of it's infallibility.

01-22-2003, 01:48 PM	#8
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	If I stare at something too long, my contact lenses fall out. Anything after that is definitely perceptual distortion (I have a -3.5 prescription in my better eye)

01-24-2003, 07:11 PM	#9
Bitman cellar smellar Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: californy, baby! Posts: 403	I don't have direct experience with your devil cults, so I don't know what the 'official' effect looks like. But I've seen aura around inanimate objects. Its more common name is "persistence of vision." Also, psychology is a science in that your brain is thinking things, and feeling things, and there are processes going on. But we don't have any technological means to detect and measure any of these, so we can't know what's going on. So it's also an art form, reading peoples' words and actions, and trying to infer what led to those.

01-24-2003, 07:27 PM	#10
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I consider psychology to be a science, though my degree says "Bachelor of Arts." Remember juju, there is no proof in science. Only support of theories, hence why psychologists use various tools (such as ANOVA) to try and support theories to the point that they are statistically significant.

01-24-2003, 10:05 PM	#12
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	It hurts being an Arkansan, doesn't it, Juju?

01-24-2003, 11:06 PM	#13
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Sometimes.

01-25-2003, 01:24 AM	#14
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Find one of your old psychology textbooks. Look at it. Usually around the first or second chapter, often one of the longer chapters in the book, there is an extended discussion of one thing. "Why Psychology is a Science." That, or something similar is often the name of that particular chapter. Psychology goes overboard trying to prove/justify it's existence as a science. Why is that? To divorce itself from the dark ages of voodoo, witchcraft, shamanism, and mesmerism ... to make it respectable in the eyes of polite society ... "We're not fiddling around in the dark with people's emotions here. THIS IS SCIENCE." So tell me, when was the last time anyone open a textbook of say, Physics or Chemistry, that had a chapter entitled "Why Physicis is a Science." Psychology is art. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Oh, and Syc ... I'll see your Bachelors and raise you my Masters ... they are "of Arts" merely as a consequence of the programs we respectively went to. There are schools that offer MS in Clinical Psych as well. 'Wolf ---------- "Spiritualists and Shamans do the same job psychologists and psyciatrists do, using the same tools, and achieving about the same results." --- E. Fuller Torrey, MD Mind Games

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