|
Philosophy Religions, schools of thought, matters of importance and navel-gazing |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
06-15-2004, 08:51 PM | #1 |
to live and die in LA
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,090
|
On Morality
Why do good people do bad things?
This is not a pithy question. I'm looking for some thoughtful answers here. Why do we have moral lapses, where people who generally try to do good things occasionally do things that are bad? And before we get too relativistic, I'm staying within that person's moral framework - they do things that they themselves acknowledge as bad. -sm |
06-15-2004, 09:51 PM | #2 |
lobber of scimitars
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phila Burbs
Posts: 20,774
|
There is evil in the world and no one remains untouched.
__________________
wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis |
06-16-2004, 05:55 AM | #3 |
stalking a Tom
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: on the edge of the english channel
Posts: 1,000
|
I disagree very strongly with the premise of 'evil'. It is absolute and uncompromising, and assumes a fantastical interpretation of the world that aligns with the most destructive myth of all: religion.
I do not believe a person can be inherently 'good' or 'bad'. We do not live in a movie reality of heroes and villains, clear-cut morality and happy endings. The pursuit of ultimates is perhaps the most significant human flaw - a life based on achievement (top marks), possession, and the constant (unreachable) goal of 'ultimate happiness'. Ultimates make it easier to make sense of the world - it is philosophical semantics - symbols/ideologies we adopt to break complex problems down into patterns/behaviour we understand. On this basis, 'moral lapses' occur when there has been a difficulty forming an ultimate. Ideological confusion occurs whereby there is no or little cohesion between a situation and a pre-existing schema or belief system. A malfunction, if you like. It is necessary then to either alter an existing moral set or embark on a role within the situation that does not align. This is when 'good' people do 'bad' things - when there is a 'glitch' in their matrix.
__________________
I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore. |
06-16-2004, 06:30 AM | #4 |
whig
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,075
|
Spirit was willing, flesh was weak.
Ends justifies the means.
__________________
Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain |
06-16-2004, 07:15 AM | #5 |
Radical Centrist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
|
People are complex and full of contradictory impulses and it's hard for some of them to keep it all straight.
|
06-16-2004, 07:37 AM | #6 |
The urban Jane Goodall
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,012
|
There are also people who intentionally/unconsciously break their rules so that they can keep a steady supply of guilt on hand.
Some people just simply can't handle being good all of the time.
__________________
I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle |
06-16-2004, 08:12 AM | #7 | |
Your Bartender
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Philly Burbs, PA
Posts: 7,651
|
Quote:
Do you agree (or do you not) that some actions are evil or bad (we're throwing around terms that haven't been rigidly defined), even if you and I may disagree about which actions those are? |
|
06-16-2004, 08:28 AM | #8 | |
stalking a Tom
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: on the edge of the english channel
Posts: 1,000
|
Quote:
__________________
I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore. |
|
06-16-2004, 08:37 AM | #9 |
Your Bartender
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Philly Burbs, PA
Posts: 7,651
|
That's precisely why I asked about bad "actions" rather than bad people.
|
06-16-2004, 08:50 AM | #10 |
stalking a Tom
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: on the edge of the english channel
Posts: 1,000
|
No, you don't understand. Whether it is action or person is inconsequential. It is the personification of 'evil' as a tangible entity I disagree with. There is no such thing as an evil action. The action itself is not evil, it is just an action. The motivation (and the person) behind the action is what we consider 'good' or 'bad' (see above).
__________________
I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore. |
06-16-2004, 09:06 AM | #11 |
The urban Jane Goodall
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,012
|
He's not asking the big picture, "Why do people do Evil?"
He's not looking to define evil. He's asking why do people transgress against what they perceive to be a good moral code.
__________________
I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle |
06-16-2004, 09:10 AM | #12 |
stalking a Tom
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: on the edge of the english channel
Posts: 1,000
|
No, he asked:
'Why do good people do bad things?' I felt it necessary to establish a definition of 'good' and 'bad' before I proceeded with an answer. Personally, I think the boundaries are ambiguous, and good and bad cannot be polarised in this way. If there is no such thing as a 'good' person and no such thing as a 'bad' action, then the question is redundant.
__________________
I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore. |
06-16-2004, 09:12 AM | #13 | |
The urban Jane Goodall
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,012
|
Quote:
"I'm staying within that person's moral framework - they do things that they themselves acknowledge as bad."
__________________
I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle |
|
06-16-2004, 09:22 AM | #14 |
stalking a Tom
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: on the edge of the english channel
Posts: 1,000
|
If you're going to quote, quote properly:
"Why do good people do bad things? This is not a pithy question. I'm looking for some thoughtful answers here. Why do we have moral lapses, where people who generally try to do good things occasionally do things that are bad? And before we get too relativistic, I'm staying within that person's moral framework - they do things that they themselves acknowledge as bad." I got the impression that sm wasn't looking for a 2-bit amateur psychology answer that summarised basic human rule-breaking patterns (attention, guilt, trauma... oh come on). The notion that a 'generally good' person might not exist surely sheds some light on the answer?
__________________
I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore. |
06-16-2004, 09:26 AM | #15 |
The urban Jane Goodall
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,012
|
Then let us suspend our discussion until he can clarify.
__________________
I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|