al Sadr meet JDAM

lookout123 · 08-12-2004, 12:24 PM

Quote:

By the middle of the day on Thursday, the American-led forces were reported to have taken the city centre and were aiming to pin down the militiamen in their redoubt in the Imam Ali Mosque—the holiest place in the city, revered by Shia Muslims worldwide as the burial place of Ali, the son-in-law and cousin of the Prophet Muhammad.

a couple of JDAMs could end this whole thing. obviously we won't do that for fear that the Shia world would rise up and retaliate...
it just seems to me that if you think that a location is so holy that it cannot be damaged then you shouldn't start a rebellion and then take refuge within said building. hospitals, schools, and churches become viable targets the minute a military force begins using them as a shelter or a military command post.

Quote:

Mr Sadr, believed to be holed up in the shrine with a large number of his men, has pledged to battle on “to the last drop of my blood” and urged them to fight on even after it has been shed.

Sadr is obviously prepared to sacrifice the holiness of the sight in exchange for his attempt to gain more power in the country.

Quote:

on Wednesday, Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, denounced the American military operation in Najaf as “one of the darkest crimes of humanity” and said that Muslims across the world would respond to it.

Quote:

Some of Mr Allawi’s officials have accused Iran of arming and encouraging the insurgents: last week Hazem Shalaan, the Iraqi defence minister, called Iran the “first enemy” of Iraq; this week he claimed that Iran was sending weapons to Mr Sadr’s militia. On Thursday he said Iraqi government forces had captured around 1,200 people in Najaf, “many of them non-Iraqis” who do not speak Arabic.

what? Iran and Iraq aren't going to play nice? well who didn't see this coming?

it is time to either pull out and throw up our hands in defeat and admit that we can't handle rebels hiding out in parts of the city, or fight the way the military is meant to be used - no holds barred.
if the enemy is operating from a location and refuses to come out - you destroy the location. the enemy chooses the location of a battle, you must choose the outcome.

lookout123 · 08-12-2004, 01:53 PM

and so it begins.

Marines take city center

xoxoxoBruce · 08-12-2004, 05:12 PM

Gas the Mosque.

lookout123 · 08-12-2004, 06:23 PM

oooh, gas. that would be fun. no real structural damage, just a bunch of horribly mutilated bodies to cart to the landfill. good idea bruce.

wolf · 08-13-2004, 12:47 AM

Gas would probably be a better option than a neutron bomb.

jaguar · 08-13-2004, 03:25 AM

He doesn't have widespread support, even among sh'ai muslims (the whole temple base thing didn't help, neither did other assholes stuff like using a hospital roof to fire mortars causing the hospital to be bombed) and the estimate number of fighters is well under 500. The problem is if they do attack the will damage the shrine and that will cause one hell of a uproar they cannot afford, British commanders have said off the record that in the event of a general sh'ia uprising they will be forced to leave immediately. The militia is also vastly outnumbered by the number of very pissed off (with everyone) civvies in the area, it's basically a military worst case scenario - close combat urban fighting with a holy site thrown in. While all the glass the city bullshit sure sounds tough it would be the start of the complete downfall of the occupation in a massive gurrilla war with the most likely outcome being the majority of the country becoming a Sh'ia theocracy.

Clodfobble · 08-13-2004, 08:41 AM

While all the glass the city bullshit sure sounds tough it would be the start of the complete downfall of the occupation in a massive gurrilla war with the most likely outcome being the majority of the country becoming a Sh'ia theocracy.

It's not about sounding tough, jaguar, quite the opposite--they're suggesting gas the fighters inside the mosque so that the mosque is completely preserved and perhaps some civilians are a little happier with us. Not a lot happier, but at least a little.

lookout123 · 08-13-2004, 09:52 AM

they are reporting on the morning news that they have called a cease fire for negotiations. if that is true, it is a big mistake. al Sadr will be able to claim victory and live to fight another day if he and his goons get to walk away from this one. it will only encourage further events like this.

Undertoad · 08-13-2004, 10:06 AM

They showed some video of troops busting into the guy's house. It tells you how thorough their traning is. They had a set procedure for seven guys to bust through the front door, and it was so involved -- it was like a football play diagrammed with Xs and Os. For instance, the guy who actually busts down the front door immediately retreats 8 feet, is handed his rifle by another soldier, and then sets into a prone position, all in seconds.

lookout123 · 08-13-2004, 01:18 PM

no surprise here, but they have captured iranian fighters Najaf. Iran of course says they don't allow people to cross the border, that these folks must do it illegally. things are going to continue heating up between Iran/Iraq and that is not a good thing.

although, if they do end up in a shooting war, we will probably find out if the iraquis really do have WMD buried in the desert... because they would dig that crap up in a NY minute to drop it on some Farsi speaking individuals.

The whole enchilada

jaguar · 08-13-2004, 04:21 PM

I'm sure dropping 'weapons of mass destruction', possession of which is apparently grounds for invasion on a holy site will make people real happy.

Iranians are in there, few Britons, maybe a US citizen or two, everyone is getting in on the act because they're sick of the occupation as they see it - getting on to two years, no elected Iraqi government, little or no security, basic services still not up and running, no wonder dissent is rising - the actions of which are fuelling more dissent. Iran has had it's fingers in the pie from the start of this mess, that's well known.

A cease fire is the right move, the government has tried to bring Sadr onside for a while and been rebuffed, he's had his nose thoroughly bloodied over the last few days, if they can get him onside he'll be a powerful figure for unification and co-operation, even if it did take US bullets (though most of the real fighting has been Iraqi forces backed by US forces for political reasons) pinging around him to see the light.

lookout123 · 08-14-2004, 09:58 AM

It looks like the negotiations have broken down, but the pause in hostilities gave more people the chance to get into the compound, so no there are more people to shoot at the US/Iraqi forces.

Talks fail

Who is Sadr?

Time Magazine's Take

08-12-2004, 01:53 PM	#2
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	and so it begins. Marines take city center __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

08-12-2004, 05:12 PM	#3
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Gas the Mosque. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-12-2004, 06:23 PM	#4
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	oooh, gas. that would be fun. no real structural damage, just a bunch of horribly mutilated bodies to cart to the landfill. good idea bruce. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

08-13-2004, 12:47 AM	#5
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Gas would probably be a better option than a neutron bomb. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

08-13-2004, 03:25 AM	#6
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	He doesn't have widespread support, even among sh'ai muslims (the whole temple base thing didn't help, neither did other assholes stuff like using a hospital roof to fire mortars causing the hospital to be bombed) and the estimate number of fighters is well under 500. The problem is if they do attack the will damage the shrine and that will cause one hell of a uproar they cannot afford, British commanders have said off the record that in the event of a general sh'ia uprising they will be forced to leave immediately. The militia is also vastly outnumbered by the number of very pissed off (with everyone) civvies in the area, it's basically a military worst case scenario - close combat urban fighting with a holy site thrown in. While all the glass the city bullshit sure sounds tough it would be the start of the complete downfall of the occupation in a massive gurrilla war with the most likely outcome being the majority of the country becoming a Sh'ia theocracy. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

08-13-2004, 08:41 AM	#7
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	While all the glass the city bullshit sure sounds tough it would be the start of the complete downfall of the occupation in a massive gurrilla war with the most likely outcome being the majority of the country becoming a Sh'ia theocracy. It's not about sounding tough, jaguar, quite the opposite--they're suggesting gas the fighters inside the mosque so that the mosque is completely preserved and perhaps some civilians are a little happier with us. Not a lot happier, but at least a little.

08-13-2004, 09:52 AM	#8
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	they are reporting on the morning news that they have called a cease fire for negotiations. if that is true, it is a big mistake. al Sadr will be able to claim victory and live to fight another day if he and his goons get to walk away from this one. it will only encourage further events like this. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

08-13-2004, 10:06 AM	#9
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	They showed some video of troops busting into the guy's house. It tells you how thorough their traning is. They had a set procedure for seven guys to bust through the front door, and it was so involved -- it was like a football play diagrammed with Xs and Os. For instance, the guy who actually busts down the front door immediately retreats 8 feet, is handed his rifle by another soldier, and then sets into a prone position, all in seconds.

08-13-2004, 01:18 PM	#10
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	The heat is on no surprise here, but they have captured iranian fighters Najaf. Iran of course says they don't allow people to cross the border, that these folks must do it illegally. things are going to continue heating up between Iran/Iraq and that is not a good thing. although, if they do end up in a shooting war, we will probably find out if the iraquis really do have WMD buried in the desert... because they would dig that crap up in a NY minute to drop it on some Farsi speaking individuals. The whole enchilada __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

08-13-2004, 04:21 PM	#11
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	I'm sure dropping 'weapons of mass destruction', possession of which is apparently grounds for invasion on a holy site will make people real happy. Iranians are in there, few Britons, maybe a US citizen or two, everyone is getting in on the act because they're sick of the occupation as they see it - getting on to two years, no elected Iraqi government, little or no security, basic services still not up and running, no wonder dissent is rising - the actions of which are fuelling more dissent. Iran has had it's fingers in the pie from the start of this mess, that's well known. A cease fire is the right move, the government has tried to bring Sadr onside for a while and been rebuffed, he's had his nose thoroughly bloodied over the last few days, if they can get him onside he'll be a powerful figure for unification and co-operation, even if it did take US bullets (though most of the real fighting has been Iraqi forces backed by US forces for political reasons) pinging around him to see the light. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

08-14-2004, 09:58 AM	#12
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	It looks like the negotiations have broken down, but the pause in hostilities gave more people the chance to get into the compound, so no there are more people to shoot at the US/Iraqi forces. Talks fail Who is Sadr? Time Magazine's Take __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin Last edited by lookout123; 08-14-2004 at 10:04 AM.

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