My first city council meeting

[Radar]

My first city council meeting
by Radar

It's sort of ironic that in all my years as a Libertarian political activist, I only went to my first city council meeting yesterday. It started off for purely personal reasons but now I was outraged by something so much I'm going to make it my mission to fix.

I'm considering opening a hot dog cart and putting it at a local busy carwash so people can have a dog, a soda, and a bag of chips while their car is being done. Then I got a list of rules and regulations for local towns from the county health department. Many towns do not allow vending carts at all. Not on public property and not even on private property. My town has a strange ordinance that says any vending carts must be constantly moving. I called to verify this with the business license department and was told in no uncertain terms (with the typical bad attitude of a government worker) that they enforce this absurd ordinance and that I'd not only have to move every 10 minutes; it couldn't be from a parking spot to another parking spot. It would have to be to a different address.

I sent a heated email to every member of the city council and showed them photos of my cart so they could see it wasn't a small ice-cream pushcart. Fully loaded it weighs nearly 800 lbs and is normally towed behind a car. It has a sink, storage areas, soap, and everything to make it a fully functional mobile restaurant and it will be certified and inspected by the county health department.

When I got to the meeting, I waited for the time when the people could address the city council and mayor. During the time I was waiting, I heard something that immediately made me so angry the hair on the back of my neck stood up and my face became flushed.

Apparently the town in which I live has heard of VoIP (Voice over IP) technology which allows people to send data packets of their voice over the internet to speak with people everywhere for much cheaper rates than they could get with the phone company. There are several companies offering this service but the most popular is Vonage. The city council of Gardena has taken it upon themselves to charge a "utility tax" on the internet providers in the area because people can potentially use it for speaking to people on a phone. As a Libertarian and a computer network engineer I was appalled by the nerve of these people trying to charge a tax based on what kind of data someone wants to send over an international network.

When my turn came to address the council I told them there is no sane person anywhere on earth who would consider internet access to be a "utility" to be taxed. I also pointed out that not even the Federal government claims to have ownership over the internet. Nor does the government of any other country because it is an international network and isn't "owned" by anyone but the companies who built the fiber-optic backbones and who paid for the incredibly expensive switches, and other equipment. I asked why the city of Gardena thought it had any claim over the internet and how they could possibly presume to have the authority to tax something they hold no claim to based on something as arbitrary as the kind of data packets that were going across the network. They seemed confused, and only the city attorney understood my questions. I'm going to do some serious grassroots work in the community to nip this in the bud and hopefully my region can help me out.

Back to the hot dog cart. One of the city council members sided with me and said he didn't understand what the problem is if I'm on private property, and the city manager said my cart could "potentially" be moved so it must constantly move. The city council member in question didn't think that mattered anymore than I do. Another city council member said it wouldn't be fair to local businesses that pay rent in strip malls, etc. I said whatever arrangements someone makes for rent on private property is no concern of mine and I shouldn't be punished if I can find a better way to do business.

I should mention that the city of Gardena is currently in the process of going bankrupt. Their fiscal irresponsibility has cost our small town several million dollars. I explained to the council that the last thing a bankrupt city should do is chase away new business. The mayor seemed tired of my talking and asked me to take a seat. I think I exceeded the time limit for a speaker.

After the meeting, several of the local citizens in the audience approached me and told me I was right, and they were happy I brought it up. I also met with the one member of the city council who agreed with me. He gave me his business card and told me to contact him at his business (a local jewelry store). I was also approached by the manager of a local card club casino who told me I should take a photo of the cart in front of the Sam's Club store in our town. Everyday they bring a cart out of the store and sell pretzels and churros and don't move the cart all day. I know the town won't go after Sam's Club, and if they can have a cart, I'm sure I can have one. This was great advice.

I am very happy to find one city council member who took the Libertarian view. Without a member of the city council to bring the issue of changing the local ordinance to the floor, I'd have to gather 3,000 signatures on my own to make it happen.

I'm pretty sure I can get my personal problem with the cart handled on my own, but the 4-5% utility tax on local internet providers is going to be tough and I will need help from all the Libertarians I can writing to their local papers so it doesn't happen in their towns, and also help locally to overturn this.

[Beestie]

Another city council member said it wouldn't be fair to local businesses that pay rent in strip malls, etc.

The council member that said that is so fucking retarded its beyond belief. Why is party A who rents private property from Party B put at a disadvantage when Party X (Radar) rents private property from Party Z? What if, by extraordinary co-incidence, Party B owns both parcels? Please characterize the disadvantage in that scenario. Also, please explain how Party Z (landlord of the 2nd parcel) is not put at a disadvantage by being prohibited from putting his/her land to its highest and best use by being permitted to lease to Party X? That amounts to an economic subsidy to Party B from Party X. Pure, unadulterated BS.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I will never live in California. That, and mud. And Jeanine Garafolo.

[Radar]

Oh, did I mention that they started off with a prayer and specifically invoked the name of Jesus Christ? They also did the pledge under god, and mentioned several ministers and churches by name during the city council meeting.

I'd run for city council but 3 of the 5 members and the mayor are all Japanese, and so is the city lawyer. All of the artwork, the town library, etc. are all Japanese.

I'm not Japanese, but I speak some, so winning in the town would be tough. The one guy who was on my side is Mexican, and the guy who said it wouldn't be fair is a black guy.

[Troubleshooter]

Good job.

Good post.

One issue though. You mentioned people agreeing with you as taking the libertarian view. Wouldn't it make more sense to say they agreed with a good idea? Some people might view you wanting to claim the idea is libertarian (you're aren't really, but they'll see it that way) in a negative light considering how many people see libertarians wackos.

It's just a thought, sometimes you have to groom people to go the direction you want them to go.

[Undertoad]

Let's review shall we.

You wanted something from them.

So you sent them an angry letter. You went to their meeting and assumed they were majority racist. The first thing you did was to show disgust at their religious practices. Then, before your critical issue came up you took a firm, exasperated position against one of their issues not related to your cart.

And then you asked them about your cart... and got push-back. At that point your response was to harangue them until they told you to sit down and shut up.

There is a reason 99% of "Libertarian activists" do not participate in their local meetings. This is real-life politics with real people getting their real feelings hurt and protecting their own interests and voting in blocks and whatnot. It is completely and totally incompatible with Libertarian supper-club armchair philosophy. When real humans get together to try to work stuff out, it is never pretty. Best to stick to the books and online where being right is its own reward.

And if you want a hot dog cart, try another jurisdiction because your chances in this one are ZERO. Your only alternative left is to hire representation to sue against the law requiring carts to move.

[Radar]

Actually I'll FORCE them to get rid of the tax and to change the ordinance. I have a member on the council and if that doesn't work I'll gather the required signatures to get it on the next ballot. The people of the town are behind me and so is my party. I may even run for council and take one of thier jobs away and the town is small enough that I could do it.

I realize you know less than nothing about libertarianism and libertarian activism so I'll ignore your lame and ignorant "supper club" and "armchair philosophy" comments.

Libertarianism has always been compatible with real world/real life politics, especially when it comes to preventing local government from implementing laws they have no legitimate authority to make, and stopping the mixing of church and state.

Irv Rubin (a friend of mine who was murdered by the FBI) actually sued his town for having prayers and specifically mentioning the name of Jesus and he won. There is already a legal precedent for me to stop that if I choose to. Instead all I did was remain sitting and reading my newspaper rather than standing during their prayer.

[Undertoad]

I continue here so that I won't edit my above post again. There was a way to get a hot-dog cart out of this council. You should have gone to several of the individual council members and asked for quick meetings to get their buy-in in advance. Address it positively. Explain that they can make the change only for "proper" carts that are too large to move normally. Explain how these "proper" carts are not an eyesore and will increase their revenue and address needs. Be friendly, listen carefully to their concerns, and try to address them reasonably. Once you have the buy in of three members outside of the local meeting, go to the next meeting and make the request while ignoring any other meeting business. Once they have voted in favor of your need, thank them and tell them how reasonable they have been.

Then, at the NEXT meeting, bring up the ISP tax as a concern, not a demand. If possible, bring a prior legal decision that supports your position and hand it to the council's attorney. Tell them it was something that stuck in your mind and that you just want to make sure the township isn't making a serious mistake by taking up a tax that could get rescinded later, which would mess up future budgets and require them to find other sources of income. Tell them you heard of another township that did that and wound up in big trouble three years later.

[Radar]

Now that's some good advice. One guy is going to help me. I didn't say anything about thier prayers. And I'm getting photos of the booth at Sam's Club who I know they won't mess with. I don't see how they can turn down the booth if I do all this. I'll also try to meet with some of the Japanese council members to get thier support. Maybe I can make a teriyaki dog or something (just kidding). Seriously though the town is bankrupt, and the place I'd be putting the cart is across the street from a burned out strip mall that burned in August of Last year and still hasn't been cleaned up because the owner says it has asbestos and other hazardous waste inside. But it's been raining for the last month or two and that's been running into the drains, etc. I think bringing new business into the area might improve things.

[richlevy]

I agree with Tony that you should have approached the situation more carefully.

However, you are probably right about their attempt to locally tax ISP's. I thought that the Internet Tax Nondiscrimination Act made it clear that they cannot single out the Internet. If they want to tax VOIP carriers like Vonage, then they might be able to do so, but a broad tax on Internet carriers would violate federal law.

You can notify you congressman's office about their plans. If it does violate federal law, he can probably set them straight.

[Beestie]

You should also mention that Quentin T. has endorsed your hot dog stand and that his atty is a buddy of yours. And that if they don't piss you off too bad, you might recommend the town be the setting for his next movie.

What are they gonna do? Veryify it?

[russotto]

They can't tax ISPs, and they can't tax VOIP providers at present, so sayeth the FCC (though the case is in the courts).

Anyway, Tony, you're probably right about why Libertarian activists don't go to council meetings, but it's a worse reflection on the council than the activists. Local politics is mean, petty, and dirty as hell. It's just usually not noticed by nonparticipants until scaled up to at least city size (hence the city of Philadelphia, and on a national scale, Mexico). Trying to be a Libertarian activist there is like trying to be an animal-rights activist in a shark tank.