What have you done for me lately?

[lookout123]

a client of mine just left after griping for 20 minutes about the ACLU. knowing the client, that isn't a big surprise, but he did get me thinking. his current gripe revolves around the Boy Scout jamboree. basically all the scouts get together every 4 years and do whatever it is that boy scouts do. this year for the first time since the 1930's the boy scout jamboree was not able to be sponsored or assisted by government organizations. historically, the DOD provides tents and manpower to assist the organization - but not anymore.

because the boy scouts require all members to acknowledge the existence of God, providing them with assistance or sponsorship would be a violation of separation of church and state. apparently this was a victory for the ACLU?

because of their name and their charter, anybody who is critical of the ACLU risks being "anti-american", "anti-liberty", etc. but my real question is what position have they championed recently that actually took some back bone? or even made sense? (I remember a few years back they championed the KKK's right to march in Skokie, IL - unpopular to be sure, but the ACLU realized that even scumbags have certain rights.) other than that case, i can't remember hearing anything out of the ACLU, in recent years, that sounded like anything but petty political maneuvering.

thoughts?

[wolf]

You do know the whole founded by commies thing, right?

[lookout123]

"I'm a card carrying member of the ACLU. What the viewers should be asking is - Bob Rumson, why aren't you?"

the ACLU is just set up in such a way that any argument against them is so easy to twist into a "so what do you have against Civil Liberties?" moment, that its just ridiculous.

they fight to remove religious elements from the public eye. of course, they also are fighting to help the mormon fundamentalists keep the right to be polygamist, childraping, welfare living freaks.

their agenda is pretty hard to nail down sometimes.

[wolf]

Did they end up representing NAMBLA or were they just considering it?

I think the ACLU picks and chooses their cases in such a way as to give themselves the most exposure. If you have a run of the mill 1st Amendment case, don't expect the ACLU to show up on your behalf ... it's not about the law, it's about their publicity.

They are, incidently, largely funded NOT by your $20/year contributions, but by charging exhorbinant legal fees that get lumped into whatever settlement they win (sometimes more than the settlement, incidentally), which is why a lot of the folks they go after settle.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by lookout123

i can't remember hearing anything out of the ACLU, in recent years, that sounded like anything but petty political maneuvering.

thoughts?

I guess you could call anything petty political maneuvering or publicity seeking, especially since they can't handle every case and therefore must be selective, but here's a list of some issues they're handling:

PATRIOT Act and the SAFE Act
Civil rights for gays
Evolution in schools
Surveilance of citizens
Civil rights for Muslims
Internet regulation
Civil rights for Native Americans

If you want to see everything they're doing, they do have a web site. There, you can see even the stuff that doesn't make national news.

[Pie]

Originally Posted by lookout123

this year for the first time since the 1930's the boy scout jamboree was not able to be sponsored or assisted by government organizations. historically, the DOD provides tents and manpower to assist the organization - but not anymore.

About bloody time. Support an organization that inculcates hatred as a stated part of their mission? Give me a break!

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by Pie

About bloody time. Support an organization that inculcates hatred as a stated part of their mission? Give me a break!

You may want to be more certain of what they are actually teaching.

[lookout123]

who and what exactly are boy scouts taught to hate? i remember camping, first aid, volunteering at the old folks home, the carwash and donating proceeds to the school... but for the life of me, i don't remember the badge for showing enough hate. did i miss a lesson?

oh wait, there was that time they let us use knives to whittle - should that be deemed as a danger to society?

[Happy Monkey]

The official stance is that you're OK no matter what religious beliefs you have as long as a) it involves some sort of supernatural aspect, and b) you're not gay. Individual troops may have more restrictive views, especially Mormon troops, though perhaps not officially.

[Pie]

Originally Posted by lookout123

who and what exactly are boy scouts taught to hate?

Gays and atheists.

[lookout123]

please provide documentation to show that the boy scouts teach children to HATE gays or atheists.

[lookout123]

they are an organization that feels strongly that A) there is a higher being than one's own self, and B) that homosexuality is wrong. They believe that to be a part of the organization you should hold to those beliefs. that does not equal hate.

if the scout leader were to sit down one afternoon and say, *redneck twang* "now boys, you all know we don't hold with them faggots and godhaters, so let's make some signs to hold up and make sure you grab some rocks to throw at 'em too." now that would be teaching hate.

[Pie]

They lead their young by example. If you do not teach acceptance and tolerance, you teach rejection and hate.
Oh yeah, and if you have AIDS, forget being a Scout...

[jinx]

Originally Posted by lookout123

because the boy scouts require all members to acknowledge the existence of God, providing them with assistance or sponsorship would be a violation of separation of church and state. apparently this was a victory for the ACLU?

Makes sense to me, I don't understand your gripe.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by Pie

They lead their young by example. If you do not teach acceptance and tolerance, you teach rejection and hate.
Oh yeah, and if you have AIDS, forget being a Scout...

oh BS. i teach my son that stealing is wrong. i don't teach him that anyone who steals is worthy of our hate.

jinx - my gripe is that the BSA can be a valuable experience in a child's life. it is an organization that has been very positive for many many people. they aren't on the sidewalks handing out christian/buddhist/hindi tracts or proselytizng people, but because recognizing a higher power is a core value of the group they are now rejected from the assistance they have historically received.