Oh NOW I understand why Elspode feels the nation is fascist

Undertoad · 08-12-2006, 09:22 AM

Cause where he lives it sometimes is!!! Read on and vomit.

Unwed couple sues town over housing flap

Quote:

KANSAS CITY, Missouri (Reuters) - A Missouri couple who must get married, or move, in order to comply with a housing ordinance in Black Jack, Missouri, sued the town on Thursday, claiming rules prohibiting the unmarried couple and their children from living together are unconstitutional.

The petition, filed in the Circuit Court of St. Louis County, challenges a Black Jack city ordinance that prohibits more than three people from living together in the same house if they are unrelated by blood, marriage or adoption.

Plaintiffs Olivia Shelltrack and Fondray Loving and their children moved from Minnesota to Missouri earlier this year, buying a five-bedroom home in the tiny community outside St. Louis.

Shelltrack and Loving have lived together about 13 years and have two children together, along with a 15-year-old daughter of Shelltrack's from a previous relationship.

Black Jack, a town of about 7,000 that prides itself on a city Web site for its "character and stability," refused to grant the couple and their children an occupancy permit for their home because they do not meet the definition of "family" as set forth by the city, the complaint alleges.

The city has threatened to begin fining the couple as much as $500 a day, said Tony Rothert, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Eastern Missouri, which is helping represent the family in the lawsuit.

Griff · 08-12-2006, 11:04 AM

This is actually a fairly common ordinance in towns trying to keep college students at bay... of course, that doesn't make it right.

elSicomoro · 08-12-2006, 11:10 AM

This started earlier this year, IIRC. Some suburbs here in St. Louis still require occupancy permits for homes and apartments, Black Jack being one of them. The family fought the definition with the City Council, but lost a few months ago.

While I think the couple is stupid for not marrying (13 years? Come on now!), Black Jack is even more stupid. I guess they don't like tax revenues.

Of course, I believe MO still has a law that officially prohibits an unmarried man and woman from living together.

Griff · 08-12-2006, 11:12 AM

No common law marriage in Mo?

elSicomoro · 08-12-2006, 11:15 AM

No. I thought IL did, but they don't either...only 15 states and DC.

Trilby · 08-12-2006, 12:20 PM

Town right next to University of Dayton (Oakwood) has that same ordinance. Utter BS.

Undertoad · 08-12-2006, 12:29 PM

Teen in CT can't sell night crawlers anymore because some town official didn't like his hand-painted sign

elSicomoro · 08-12-2006, 12:40 PM

http://tinyurl.com/jagg6

Some background on this story, based on what I heard on the radio yesterday:
--Person wants to set up fruit/vegetable stand in Pevely
--Person gets a hard time from Pevely's city government
--A state permit to sell your own bounty is not necessary
--Mayor sells his own tomatoes from his house
--Mayor draws ire of some residents

9th Engineer · 08-12-2006, 12:41 PM

Does anyone know why common law marriage was introduced? It's a really dumb concept in my opinion, if a couple is intentionally NOT getting married then they probably don't want to be told they are now married due to time spent together.

9th Engineer · 08-12-2006, 12:45 PM

Also, even though it's a stupid law it really doesn't qualify as fascist. Fascist is now just a buzzword people throw around indescriminantly.

Clodfobble · 08-12-2006, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Does anyone know why common law marriage was introduced?

Initially, it was because there were some people who literally couldn't afford to get married, because of the various government and officiator fees. Now it has become easier and cheaper to get married. My parents were common-law married, because they both thought weddings were dumb and didn't want to bother with the hassle of getting a marriage license from the government.

Griff · 08-12-2006, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Fascist is now just a buzzword people throw around indescriminantly.

Some folks misuse it as a suffix as well.

Cyclefrance · 08-12-2006, 07:18 PM

Sounds like you need our Human Rights law.

Over here if anyone tries to prevent someone doing what they want then that someone claims their human rights are being abused/infringed and, lo and behold, they get their way.

May sound good, but the trouble is every Tom Dick and Harry uses it when they are in a situation they don't like - even (maybe that should be 'mainly') criminals who all too easily when trying to be brought to justice will use the Human Rights Act to turn the tables.

As an example we find that attempts to deport terrorist agitators are thwarted because the individuals claim that we are denying them their human rights to stay here as a place of safety rather than their homeland where they would be under threat of death from their government.

Just shows the sorts of mess we land ourselves in, what with the wierd rules and regulations aired here in this thread and then the equally wierd outcome from a law that's meant to bring the situation into balance. Prime examples of what you get when people stick their oars in attempting to make inappropriate improvements - they only end up creating as many (maybe more) problems than existed in the first place.

9th Engineer · 08-12-2006, 08:03 PM

The best action would probably be to remove common law marriage from the books. It doesn't serve any meaningful purpose, and it's only going to muddle things further in the future. In states allowing gay marriage for example, you'll run into trouble with people making legal comittments they never intended too. As a college student I'd have to watch my housing agreements very carefully, and make sure I never shared an apartment with anyone long enough for CLM to kick in. Sounds weird? Not really, I'm sure there are plenty of scumbag guys out there who'd take advantage of having a legal right to half my belongings. It's just too outdated to keep around.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-13-2006, 02:38 AM

If you don't graduate before CLM kicks in, then give it up.

Unless you "present" yourself as being married, you'd have to live together a very long time to be ensnared into CLM against your will. Having a kid or two would shorten that, however.

There are still places in this country where doing the paperwork and finding someone "authorized" to marry people, could be expensive and time consuming.
In the distant past, those places were not hard to find. Also in the distant past, people didn't feel right about "living in sin"...and had even stronger feelings about their neighbors, "living in sin".

08-12-2006, 11:04 AM	#2
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	This is actually a fairly common ordinance in towns trying to keep college students at bay... of course, that doesn't make it right. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

08-12-2006, 11:12 AM	#4
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	No common law marriage in Mo? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

08-12-2006, 12:20 PM	#6
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	Town right next to University of Dayton (Oakwood) has that same ordinance. Utter BS. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

08-12-2006, 12:41 PM	#9
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	Does anyone know why common law marriage was introduced? It's a really dumb concept in my opinion, if a couple is intentionally NOT getting married then they probably don't want to be told they are now married due to time spent together. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

08-12-2006, 12:45 PM	#10
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	Also, even though it's a stupid law it really doesn't qualify as fascist. Fascist is now just a buzzword people throw around indescriminantly. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

08-12-2006, 11:10 AM	#3
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	This started earlier this year, IIRC. Some suburbs here in St. Louis still require occupancy permits for homes and apartments, Black Jack being one of them. The family fought the definition with the City Council, but lost a few months ago. While I think the couple is stupid for not marrying (13 years? Come on now!), Black Jack is even more stupid. I guess they don't like tax revenues. Of course, I believe MO still has a law that officially prohibits an unmarried man and woman from living together.

08-12-2006, 11:15 AM	#5
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	No. I thought IL did, but they don't either...only 15 states and DC.

08-12-2006, 12:29 PM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Teen in CT can't sell night crawlers anymore because some town official didn't like his hand-painted sign

08-12-2006, 12:40 PM	#8
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	http://tinyurl.com/jagg6 Some background on this story, based on what I heard on the radio yesterday: --Person wants to set up fruit/vegetable stand in Pevely --Person gets a hard time from Pevely's city government --A state permit to sell your own bounty is not necessary --Mayor sells his own tomatoes from his house --Mayor draws ire of some residents

08-12-2006, 07:18 PM	#13
Cyclefrance Pump my ride! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Deep countryside of Surrey , England Posts: 1,890	Sounds like you need our Human Rights law. Over here if anyone tries to prevent someone doing what they want then that someone claims their human rights are being abused/infringed and, lo and behold, they get their way. May sound good, but the trouble is every Tom Dick and Harry uses it when they are in a situation they don't like - even (maybe that should be 'mainly') criminals who all too easily when trying to be brought to justice will use the Human Rights Act to turn the tables. As an example we find that attempts to deport terrorist agitators are thwarted because the individuals claim that we are denying them their human rights to stay here as a place of safety rather than their homeland where they would be under threat of death from their government. Just shows the sorts of mess we land ourselves in, what with the wierd rules and regulations aired here in this thread and then the equally wierd outcome from a law that's meant to bring the situation into balance. Prime examples of what you get when people stick their oars in attempting to make inappropriate improvements - they only end up creating as many (maybe more) problems than existed in the first place. __________________ Always sufficient hills - never sufficient gears

08-12-2006, 08:03 PM	#14
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	The best action would probably be to remove common law marriage from the books. It doesn't serve any meaningful purpose, and it's only going to muddle things further in the future. In states allowing gay marriage for example, you'll run into trouble with people making legal comittments they never intended too. As a college student I'd have to watch my housing agreements very carefully, and make sure I never shared an apartment with anyone long enough for CLM to kick in. Sounds weird? Not really, I'm sure there are plenty of scumbag guys out there who'd take advantage of having a legal right to half my belongings. It's just too outdated to keep around. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

08-13-2006, 02:38 AM	#15
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	If you don't graduate before CLM kicks in, then give it up. Unless you "present" yourself as being married, you'd have to live together a very long time to be ensnared into CLM against your will. Having a kid or two would shorten that, however. There are still places in this country where doing the paperwork and finding someone "authorized" to marry people, could be expensive and time consuming. In the distant past, those places were not hard to find. Also in the distant past, people didn't feel right about "living in sin"...and had even stronger feelings about their neighbors, "living in sin". __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)