9 posts down page 3

[tw]

Originally posted by jaguar in "A National ID card"
Ok look, this is a waste of item unless you define its purpose.
What EXACTLY would a national ID be used for. Where would it have to be shown?

I had already answered this question weeks previous by example. This previous example was provided. Financial instruments: in ancient history, I could even buy groceries by cashing a check. If short on cash at the Howard Johnson's Restaurant, I could write a check. No problem when paper was a reliable form of ID verification. After all it was the 20th Century. Now even a company payroll check is no longer acceptable at grocery stores nor can be even cashed at a bank until the check clears your account. Freedoms and liberties stolen by ID theifs.

That is not just personal checks. Payroll check once had the integrity of cash. Today, identify fraud is so common, even a payroll check cannot be cashed. That alone is a major reason for reliable identity verification. How many more financial actions once deemed common will be taken away simply because we can no longer prove who we are. Without an ID verification system, the liberties once provided by checks and other financial instruments will be taken away.

Financial integrity and other credit worthiness: what other form of ID is reliable for identification verification? No, not even a driver's license is nor was intended for such purpose. Driver's licenses are used only because no ID verfication system exists.

Currently anyone can get a driver's license, take out a loan, obtain credit cards, and use my credit rating to steal. No matter that I did not do the crime. I am still victimized by those who were denied the ability to verify I am who I said. Someone steals from them so I am victimized instead. IOW my credit rating is permanently destroyed because others would denied me the ability to protect my identity. Others instead protected criminal activity by denying any ID verification and protection system to honest Americans. I am denied to ability to tell these agencies that my good name can only be used with ID verification. Am I to be denied tools to protect myself because others fear a system they will not even use?

Account protecton: I request my bank to put ID verification requirements on all my accounts. Currently a Commerce Bank in Siklerville NJ has numerous accounts compromised by others claiming to be the account holder. More identity theft because honest account holders cannot put protection on their accounts.

If you don't want ID verification and protection, then don't participate. Instruct your bank to perform business as usual with anyone who claims to be you. But to stifle an ID verification denies me the security we require on our accounts. Opponents of a National ID would encourage all personal information to be made available to criminals. Fine for them. They need not participate if they choose. But they are simply being intolerant - to deny us the ability to protect personal information - because of unfounded fears and a believe that current paper systems will always work just fine.

IRS information protection: my tax information is available to anyone who steals my identity. Only required is a phoney driver's license. I want the option of putting a flag on my tax information - only accessed when ID verificaton is performed. You can leave your tax information open to any ID theif. That is your right. Exercise it. But damn if you have the right to deny me personal ID protection. Just another purpose to an ID verification and protection system.

Credit theft: no credit card may be taken out in my name without ID verification. Quite simple. If anyone attempts to obtain credit in my good name, the credit agency denies access because the ID system says tw demands all credit cards, bank loans, etc taken out in my name be subjected to ID verification. Again, if you don't want that option, then don't apply. When you apply for credit cards, then no system demands you prove yourself beyond current, insecure, paper ID systems.

All commerical, legal, and financial protection - the good offense against your enemies and criminals: furthermore I want to detect when someone has attempted to use my good name to steal from others. Again, you can choose not to use such as system. But you don't have the right to deny me the ability to protect my identification simply because you fear.

Legal protection: I have protection in that any attempt to steal my identity in a crime in Oregon simply results in more caution by Oregon cops - who discover that I demand my good name be verified - by a National ID system. If cops think they arrest tw, and cops inquire about tw on a National ID system, then 1) they discover I want them to demand proper ID and 2) I am notified that a tw in Oregon accessed the system in my name. ID verification and ID protection. More important, I can notify Oregon that someone is stealing my identification to subvert Oregon law and to destroy my good name. I require that protection. Currently others who fear government more than criminals would deny me any such protection simply due to fear of change.

Are those enough examples of where an ID verification and protection system would be used?

Welcome to the 21st Century where one need not rob a bank or steal my car. Easier and financially more profitable instead to victimize me by proving they are me. Not just claim but prove because currently we only have identification that is routinely counterfeit and which provides ZERO protection for the ID theft victim. Are we so naive as to believe the current paper ID systems still work? Are we so naive to believe that systems not intended to verify ID will both verify and protection that identity?

Those who fear change would deny me protection from the most productive of crimes. How intolerant of them. Above are just some current examples of ID thefts.

What is it used for? With electronic identification and transactions only in their infancy, how many thousands more ways will be discovered to steal from honest people. ID theft is not even a crime in most states. ID protection does not exist. ID verification in the 20th Century will be considered non-existent compared to protection required by the electronic 21st Century.

In the 20th Century, if your name was on a check, then that paper was proof enough that it was you. Good enough in a society only based upon paper. Welcome to the 21st Century where someone in China or in space can transact anywhere using your good name because Identification is electrons; paper is obsolete and so easily counterfeit. Will we use ID systems in the 21st century only based upon paper? Yes according to the myopic who fear any stinking ID verification and protection system. The fear of an ID system if as unfounded as a belief in a paper ID verification and protection system.

Why do they believe we have any verfication system? IOW the question for jaguar is what will work for ID verification and protection in the 21st Century? Does jaguar believe that our paper ID system will always be sufficient? Provided are just some examples of why ID verification, never required in the past, will be important even to protect Americans from criminal Nigerians. Does jaguar still believe our (non-existent) ID system will be sufficient in 2010? Why? Even HP Deskjets have made current ID verification systems obsolete. What does jaguar propose to use now that no secure ID verification and protection system exists? Currently even a face is no longer valid for commercial indentification.