Massacre in Haditha: Eight Marines Charged With Killing 24 Iraqis

12-25-2006, 02:01 PM

Massacre in Haditha: Eight Marines Charged With Killing 24 Iraqis

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The victims were asleep the night of November 20th, 2005 when Marines burst into their homes and shot them dead. The military initially claimed 15 civilians had died in a roadside blast caused by insurgents. Human rights activists have described the killings in Haditha as perhaps the worst case of deliberate killing of Iraqi civilians by US service members since the war began. [includes rush transcript]

Eight Marines have been charged in connection with the killing of twenty-four Iraqis in the town of Haditha last year. The victims were asleep the night of November 20th, 2005 when marines burst into their homes and shot them dead. The military initially claimed fifteen civilians had died in a roadside blast caused by insurgents. Human rights activists have described the killings in Haditha as perhaps the worst case of deliberate killing of Iraqi civilians by US service members since the war began.
Soon after the incident, the mayor of Haditha led an angry delegation up to a nearby Marine camp to seek redress. Their protests were ignored and the US military stood by its original contention, that the civilians were killed by a roadside bomb. The story would have ended there had it not been taken up by Time magazine.

Time obtained a videotape shot in Haditha by an Iraqi journalism student one day after the incident. The tape shows that many of the victims, especially the women and children, were still in their nightclothes when they died. The scenes from inside the houses show that the walls and ceilings are pockmarked with shrapnel, bullet holes and blood.

In January, Time presented a copy of the video along with witness testimony to US military command in Baghdad. A preliminary military investigation was launched. It established that the men, women and children were indeed killed by the marines, though it described the deaths as "collateral damage."

Earlier this year Aparisim Ghosh, the chief international correspondent for Time magazine, joined us on Democracy Now! to talk about Haditha.[Listen/watch/read full interview from March 2006]

Aparisim Ghosh, the chief international correspondent for Time magazine.

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AMY GOODMAN: Earlier this year Aparisim Ghosh, the chief international correspondent for Time magazine, joined us on Democracy Now! to talk about Haditha.

APARISIM GHOSH: In addition to the 15. We looked into this case, and the more we dug, the more we thought that something didn't quite add up. And when we finally got our hands on this videotape, it became very clear to us that these people could not have been killed outdoors by an explosive device. They were killed in their homes in their night clothes. The night clothes are significant, because Iraqi women and children, especially, are very, very unlikely to go outdoors wearing their night clothes. It is a very conservative society.

When we first approached the Marines with this evidence, they responded in quite a hostile fashion. They accused us of buying into enemy propaganda. That aroused our suspicions even further, because it seemed to be excessively hostile on their part. And we dug even more. We spoke to witnesses. We spoke to survivors of this incident. And then we became quite convinced that these people were killed by the Marines. What is left to be seen is whether they were killed in the course of the Marine operation as collateral damage or by accident, or whether the Marines went on a rampage after one of their own had been killed and killed these people in revenge.

AMY GOODMAN: You are very graphic in the piece, “One Morning in Haditha.” Describe what the survivors say happened when the US military went into the nearby houses around where the roadside bomb had exploded.

APARISIM GHOSH: Well, the survivors claim -- let me back up a little bit. The Marines claim that they received small-arms fire from nearby homes and that they responded to this fire, they shot back, and then they went into the homes to try and flush out the bad guys, the terrorists who were in there. It’s clear from the video that those homes don't have any bullet marks outside, which would suggest that there was very little, if any, shooting by the Marines at the facades of these homes. But there are lots of signs of bullets inside.

The victims told us that the Marines came in and they killed everybody inside. In one house they threw a grenade into a kitchen. That set off a propane tank and nearly destroyed the kitchen and killed several people in that home. The scenes that were described by the survivors and the witnesses were incredibly bloody and very graphic. But they are, unfortunately, very commonplace in Iraq.

AMY GOODMAN: Inside, you talked to -- you have the description of a nine-year-old girl.

APARISIM GHOSH: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: Tell us about her and her family and what she says happened.

APARISIM GHOSH: Well, she was indoors with her family when the explosion took place. The explosion was loud enough to wake everybody up in the neighborhood.

AMY GOODMAN: The bomb that killed the Marine.

APARISIM GHOSH: The first explosion, yes. And she says when she heard gunshots -- of course, she's a child, she was frightened. When the Marines stormed towards their home, her grandfather slipped into the next room, as is, apparently, was his custom to pray, to reach out for the family Koran and pray to God that this crisis would pass. On this occasion, the Marines came into the home. They entered the room where the grandfather was, and other members of the family, and killed him.

AMY GOODMAN: And she was left alive.

APARISIM GHOSH: She survived, yes.

AMY GOODMAN: And her little brother.

APARISIM GHOSH: And her brother was injured by a piece of -- either by a bullet or a piece of shrapnel, we're not sure.

AMY GOODMAN: But her parents, her mother, her father, her grandparents --

APARISIM GHOSH: Her parents, her grandparents, I believe her uncle, were also killed.

AMY GOODMAN: And then, another house.

APARISIM GHOSH: Four houses in all, involving a total of -- indoors, total of 19 people, and four people outside.

AMY GOODMAN: Aparisim Ghosh, the chief international correspondent for Time magazine. He joined us in our studio last March.

piercehawkeye45 · 12-25-2006, 03:12 PM

Woo America!

Sadly, these type of events are common within any war, especially the kind where their is no offical enemy. These marines are obviously very frustrated with what happened but what they did was overkill, and they deserve a severe punishment.

12-25-2006, 04:10 PM

What all of the Marines, and everyone else, deserves, is to be the hell out of there.

piercehawkeye45 · 12-25-2006, 04:39 PM

Letting Iraq into a civil war won't help the cause either.

I honestly can't make a good decision on this subject because I have no idea what it is like over there and I don't think anyone that hasn't been over there has a good idea either with the propaganda both ways.

If America hasn't done anything and the Iraqi people want them out then by all means send them home.

If there is progress then America can't let everything go in vain and make Iraq a worse place.

I have no doubts that Iraq is in worse shape now then before America attacked and America used horrible tatics to get the Iraqis on their side, but unless we know the full story, it is impossible to make an unbias decision.

Remember, how America deals with Iraq now will heavily determine how they will be in twenty years. If America makes it worse for them they will grow up hating the western world even more than they do now. If America at least changes strategy and tries to make Iraq a better place to live, all of their hatred will be pushed aside, if not forgotten.

Ibby · 12-25-2006, 04:55 PM

I blame the soldiers for a misjudgement and an overreaction more than for murder. Its not their fault they were there in the first place... And I believe them when they say that they thought, at the time, they were doing what they should have. They SHOULDN'T have done it, but I think that they thought they were doing the proper thing at the time... and got a little trigger-happy and carried away...

tw · 12-26-2006, 09:58 AM

When leadership lies; when troops are deployed without a strategic objective; then these massacres occur often. Haditha is not the only one. Routine is for a patrol to empty boxes of 50 cal ammunition into cars and buildings. Are they under attack? Of course not. Anyone comes too close, then 50 cal rounds are routinely expended. 50 cal is a massive round. Americans have been that vicious in Iraq for that long. Free use of firepower has been considered acceptable behavior for years now. Just another reason why so many Iraqi civilians are victims.

Combine lies by the leadership with daily (routine) use of weapons and a population where everyone is the enemy; this is Vietnam where shooting someone only because he was a gook. Such violence was then and is now common. Of course. Reasons for so much killing - including daily emptying of 50 cal ammo boxes - means *accidental* death is daily.

It all starts and will occur often because the leadership has lied repeatedly. That does not justify a massacre. That just reminds us that Haditha, Abu Ghriad, etc were not and will not be the only such events. Another lesson of Vietnam. Many other such events will remain unknown and not prosecuted. Even Haditha was ignored for months until those crime scene photographs could no longer be ignored. This is what happens when soldiers are put in such positions where they cannotwin; where the people they are ordered to protect are also the enemy. When soldiers are deployed to do what is not possible.

Phil · 12-26-2006, 12:21 PM

doesnt the "intense training" iclude discipline and restraint? jeez!
get the allied troops out of there, they should never have been sent to do a maniacs bidding for more wealth in the first place. yet another country fucked up by the west.

Aliantha · 12-26-2006, 06:05 PM

I think Iraq was pretty fucked up before the US invaded. On the other hand, I don't think it's any less fucked up now.

01-01-2007, 04:55 PM

The troops were not trained for a "police action" much less the FUBAR we are now in...

yesman065 · 01-01-2007, 10:17 PM

The only way anyone will be able to judge this situation is to see what happens to the mideast in 5 or 10 years. Whether Iraq is more effed up right now really isn't relevant to the long term outcome.

Phil · 01-02-2007, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065

The only way anyone will be able to judge this situation is to see what happens to the mideast in 5 or 10 years. Whether Iraq is more effed up right now really isn't relevant to the long term outcome.

spoken like a true politician.

yesman065 · 01-02-2007, 07:24 AM

C'mon Phil, seriously. Did you expect 100's and 100's of years of repression and tyranny to just go away in a year or two?

Phil · 01-02-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065

C'mon Phil, seriously. Did you expect 100's and 100's of years of repression and tyranny to just go away in a year or two?

of course not, but i tend to think of the civilians who have lost their lives and the relatives left to mourn, and the repercussions of the invasion; not the possibility of the almighty dollar taking precedence over people.
i actually agree with what you say - the world will have to wait many years to witness the result of an enormous fuck up by America and the allied trrops. there were other ways to deal with Saddam Hussein.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-02-2007, 12:42 PM

The problem of comparing, what was done vs the result, to what could have been done is that result of the second is speculation.

Phil · 01-02-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The problem of comparing, what was done vs the result, to what could have been done is that result of the second is speculation.

so what should be done now, after the damage has been caused and the world has been made even less safe and governments are eroding civil liberties in the name of security?

12-25-2006, 02:01 PM	#1
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Massacre in Haditha: Eight Marines Charged With Killing 24 Iraqis Massacre in Haditha: Eight Marines Charged With Killing 24 Iraqis (Go to site to get these) Listen to Segment \|\| Download Show mp3 Watch 128k stream Watch 256k stream Read Transcript Help Printer-friendly version Email to a friend Purchase Video/CD The victims were asleep the night of November 20th, 2005 when Marines burst into their homes and shot them dead. The military initially claimed 15 civilians had died in a roadside blast caused by insurgents. Human rights activists have described the killings in Haditha as perhaps the worst case of deliberate killing of Iraqi civilians by US service members since the war began. [includes rush transcript] Eight Marines have been charged in connection with the killing of twenty-four Iraqis in the town of Haditha last year. The victims were asleep the night of November 20th, 2005 when marines burst into their homes and shot them dead. The military initially claimed fifteen civilians had died in a roadside blast caused by insurgents. Human rights activists have described the killings in Haditha as perhaps the worst case of deliberate killing of Iraqi civilians by US service members since the war began. Soon after the incident, the mayor of Haditha led an angry delegation up to a nearby Marine camp to seek redress. Their protests were ignored and the US military stood by its original contention, that the civilians were killed by a roadside bomb. The story would have ended there had it not been taken up by Time magazine. Time obtained a videotape shot in Haditha by an Iraqi journalism student one day after the incident. The tape shows that many of the victims, especially the women and children, were still in their nightclothes when they died. The scenes from inside the houses show that the walls and ceilings are pockmarked with shrapnel, bullet holes and blood. In January, Time presented a copy of the video along with witness testimony to US military command in Baghdad. A preliminary military investigation was launched. It established that the men, women and children were indeed killed by the marines, though it described the deaths as "collateral damage." Earlier this year Aparisim Ghosh, the chief international correspondent for Time magazine, joined us on Democracy Now! to talk about Haditha.[Listen/watch/read full interview from March 2006] Aparisim Ghosh, the chief international correspondent for Time magazine. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RUSH TRANSCRIPT This transcript is available free of charge. However, donations help us provide closed captioning for the deaf and hard of hearing on our TV broadcast. Thank you for your generous contribution. Donate - $25, $50, $100, more... AMY GOODMAN: Earlier this year Aparisim Ghosh, the chief international correspondent for Time magazine, joined us on Democracy Now! to talk about Haditha. APARISIM GHOSH: In addition to the 15. We looked into this case, and the more we dug, the more we thought that something didn't quite add up. And when we finally got our hands on this videotape, it became very clear to us that these people could not have been killed outdoors by an explosive device. They were killed in their homes in their night clothes. The night clothes are significant, because Iraqi women and children, especially, are very, very unlikely to go outdoors wearing their night clothes. It is a very conservative society. When we first approached the Marines with this evidence, they responded in quite a hostile fashion. They accused us of buying into enemy propaganda. That aroused our suspicions even further, because it seemed to be excessively hostile on their part. And we dug even more. We spoke to witnesses. We spoke to survivors of this incident. And then we became quite convinced that these people were killed by the Marines. What is left to be seen is whether they were killed in the course of the Marine operation as collateral damage or by accident, or whether the Marines went on a rampage after one of their own had been killed and killed these people in revenge. AMY GOODMAN: You are very graphic in the piece, “One Morning in Haditha.” Describe what the survivors say happened when the US military went into the nearby houses around where the roadside bomb had exploded. APARISIM GHOSH: Well, the survivors claim -- let me back up a little bit. The Marines claim that they received small-arms fire from nearby homes and that they responded to this fire, they shot back, and then they went into the homes to try and flush out the bad guys, the terrorists who were in there. It’s clear from the video that those homes don't have any bullet marks outside, which would suggest that there was very little, if any, shooting by the Marines at the facades of these homes. But there are lots of signs of bullets inside. The victims told us that the Marines came in and they killed everybody inside. In one house they threw a grenade into a kitchen. That set off a propane tank and nearly destroyed the kitchen and killed several people in that home. The scenes that were described by the survivors and the witnesses were incredibly bloody and very graphic. But they are, unfortunately, very commonplace in Iraq. AMY GOODMAN: Inside, you talked to -- you have the description of a nine-year-old girl. APARISIM GHOSH: Yes. AMY GOODMAN: Tell us about her and her family and what she says happened. APARISIM GHOSH: Well, she was indoors with her family when the explosion took place. The explosion was loud enough to wake everybody up in the neighborhood. AMY GOODMAN: The bomb that killed the Marine. APARISIM GHOSH: The first explosion, yes. And she says when she heard gunshots -- of course, she's a child, she was frightened. When the Marines stormed towards their home, her grandfather slipped into the next room, as is, apparently, was his custom to pray, to reach out for the family Koran and pray to God that this crisis would pass. On this occasion, the Marines came into the home. They entered the room where the grandfather was, and other members of the family, and killed him. AMY GOODMAN: And she was left alive. APARISIM GHOSH: She survived, yes. AMY GOODMAN: And her little brother. APARISIM GHOSH: And her brother was injured by a piece of -- either by a bullet or a piece of shrapnel, we're not sure. AMY GOODMAN: But her parents, her mother, her father, her grandparents -- APARISIM GHOSH: Her parents, her grandparents, I believe her uncle, were also killed. AMY GOODMAN: And then, another house. APARISIM GHOSH: Four houses in all, involving a total of -- indoors, total of 19 people, and four people outside. AMY GOODMAN: Aparisim Ghosh, the chief international correspondent for Time magazine. He joined us in our studio last March.

12-25-2006, 04:55 PM	#5
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	I blame the soldiers for a misjudgement and an overreaction more than for murder. Its not their fault they were there in the first place... And I believe them when they say that they thought, at the time, they were doing what they should have. They SHOULDN'T have done it, but I think that they thought they were doing the proper thing at the time... and got a little trigger-happy and carried away... __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

12-26-2006, 12:21 PM	#7
Phil Hoodoo Guru Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 304	doesnt the "intense training" iclude discipline and restraint? jeez! get the allied troops out of there, they should never have been sent to do a maniacs bidding for more wealth in the first place. yet another country fucked up by the west. __________________ Atheist n A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.

12-26-2006, 06:05 PM	#8
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I think Iraq was pretty fucked up before the US invaded. On the other hand, I don't think it's any less fucked up now. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

01-02-2007, 12:42 PM	#14
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	The problem of comparing, what was done vs the result, to what could have been done is that result of the second is speculation. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

12-25-2006, 03:12 PM	#2
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Woo America! Sadly, these type of events are common within any war, especially the kind where their is no offical enemy. These marines are obviously very frustrated with what happened but what they did was overkill, and they deserve a severe punishment.

12-25-2006, 04:10 PM	#3
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	What all of the Marines, and everyone else, deserves, is to be the hell out of there.

12-25-2006, 04:39 PM	#4
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Letting Iraq into a civil war won't help the cause either. I honestly can't make a good decision on this subject because I have no idea what it is like over there and I don't think anyone that hasn't been over there has a good idea either with the propaganda both ways. If America hasn't done anything and the Iraqi people want them out then by all means send them home. If there is progress then America can't let everything go in vain and make Iraq a worse place. I have no doubts that Iraq is in worse shape now then before America attacked and America used horrible tatics to get the Iraqis on their side, but unless we know the full story, it is impossible to make an unbias decision. Remember, how America deals with Iraq now will heavily determine how they will be in twenty years. If America makes it worse for them they will grow up hating the western world even more than they do now. If America at least changes strategy and tries to make Iraq a better place to live, all of their hatred will be pushed aside, if not forgotten.

12-26-2006, 09:58 AM	#6
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	When leadership lies; when troops are deployed without a strategic objective; then these massacres occur often. Haditha is not the only one. Routine is for a patrol to empty boxes of 50 cal ammunition into cars and buildings. Are they under attack? Of course not. Anyone comes too close, then 50 cal rounds are routinely expended. 50 cal is a massive round. Americans have been that vicious in Iraq for that long. Free use of firepower has been considered acceptable behavior for years now. Just another reason why so many Iraqi civilians are victims. Combine lies by the leadership with daily (routine) use of weapons and a population where everyone is the enemy; this is Vietnam where shooting someone only because he was a gook. Such violence was then and is now common. Of course. Reasons for so much killing - including daily emptying of 50 cal ammo boxes - means accidental death is daily. It all starts and will occur often because the leadership has lied repeatedly. That does not justify a massacre. That just reminds us that Haditha, Abu Ghriad, etc were not and will not be the only such events. Another lesson of Vietnam. Many other such events will remain unknown and not prosecuted. Even Haditha was ignored for months until those crime scene photographs could no longer be ignored. This is what happens when soldiers are put in such positions where they cannotwin; where the people they are ordered to protect are also the enemy. When soldiers are deployed to do what is not possible.

01-01-2007, 04:55 PM	#9
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	The troops were not trained for a "police action" much less the FUBAR we are now in...

01-01-2007, 10:17 PM	#10
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	The only way anyone will be able to judge this situation is to see what happens to the mideast in 5 or 10 years. Whether Iraq is more effed up right now really isn't relevant to the long term outcome.

01-02-2007, 07:24 AM	#12
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	C'mon Phil, seriously. Did you expect 100's and 100's of years of repression and tyranny to just go away in a year or two?

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