The only way to win an argument

[Cloud]

I agree with Dale Carnegie, who says:

"The only way to win an argument is to avoid it." and--

"You may be right, dead right, as you speed along with your argument, but as far as changing another's mind is concerned, you will probably be just as futile if you were wrong."

"You can't win an argument. You can't because if you lose it, you lose it; and if you win it, you lose it. . . . you will feel fine. But what about him? You have made him feel inferior. You have hurt his pride. He will resent your triumph."

Ben Franklin said, "If you argue and rankle and contradict, you may achieve a victory sometimes; but it will be an empty victory because you will never get your opponent's good will."

Abraham Lincoln said, "No man who is resolved to make the most of himself can spare time for personal contention. . . . Better give your path to a dog than be bitten by him contesting for the right. Even killing the dog will not cure the bite."

Some people like to argue for fun. I think it is a detestable habit, and counterproductive, to say the least. Even if you know you're right, and are able to prove it--so what? Every argument you win makes you a lesser person overall. It's why I walk away when things get too contentious. Being in the middle of a snarling dog pack is not as fun as it looks on cartoons.

[SadistSecret]

I've changed people's opinions on things before, and I consider that winning. There's a difference between getting someone to just back down and not only admitting that you're right, but to also take your opinion as their own.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Cloud

... Every argument you win makes you a lesser person overall...

No it doesn't [/argument clinic]

[SadistSecret]

Every argument I win proves that once again, I'm right about something, and every argument lost is a lesson learned.

[Shawnee123]

The ability to reason, debate, and form conclusions is what life is all about. Socrates said "A life unexamined is not worth living." Sometimes you examine more of yourself when you hear differing opinions; I know I have been urged to rethink some of my very set ideas as a result of Cellar debates.

And I've certainly seen more detestable habits, but I won't go there.

By the way, Dale Carnegie also said "Fear not those who argue but those who dodge."

[SadistSecret]

Wow, I think the opening post has been totally debunked.

[Shawnee123]

Thanks. I'll be here all week. Try the veal.

[SadistSecret]

I'll be here all month, but the caterer is late.

Debate is not a contest... I do not live against anyone, those that do are deluded IMO, there is nothing to win. I feel sad for them.

[Cloud]

an arguer focuses solely on himself or herself, instead of listening. Perhaps that's why I've not been made to feel welcome here, despite a pretty diligent effort on my part to contribute.

It's okay! You guys can go argue with Lincoln and Ben, if you want.

[glatt]

Sure, everyone gets along better if there are no arguments. But...

I've modified my thinking based on arguments here in the Cellar. Being presented with new ideas and perspectives is always a good thing. It doesn't always happen, of course. Sometimes a topic gets beaten to death, and you just have to agree to disagree. I notice a lot of people are staying out of the gun debate in the VT thread. It's been done to death here and nobody is changing anybody's opinions on that one.

Which is strange. That thread is a good example of weird behavior.
Person A: makes a statement.
Person B: refutes
Then person A just makes the same initial statement without ever taking into consideration the change in paradigm made by the second statement... it is strange and, as I said earlier, sad. It shows a lack of imagination and, in some, intellect.

And emotions are not valid when making a point as to why they choose not to address points. Guns, or anything else, are not any more "emotional" than any other discussion, they just are.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Cloud

Perhaps that's why I've not been made to feel welcome here, despite a pretty diligent effort on my part to contribute.

Really? Sorry to hear you feel that way. I thought you were pretty well included, and even thinking about it I can't remember anyone arguing with you on anything in particular... I think there's a difference between debating a topic and rudely arguing about it. You also have to remind yourself on occasion that for every heated argument, there are dozens of active users not participating in it. You can walk away from a thread without pulling back from the whole community.

I think that people think I'm an asshole, well one of the reasons, is that I just don't see that there is a place for emotion in debate and one should remove it.

[glatt]

Your style is to speak in absolutes. I think that rubs many people the wrong way.