Kid's sports - parent's perspective needed

lookout123 · 12-10-2007, 02:06 PM

OK, as many of you know I coach kid's soccer. Currently I handle a rec league Under 8 team. I took a season off so I could focus on business so I had to form a new team from scratch this time around. Usually when a new team forms the results are pretty terrible because I don't recruit or go looking for special talents, I just grab the 8-11 kids + my own that don't belong to a team yet and go from there. It is a learning and building process. This time it is a bit different though.

I showed up to the first practice to find that I had 14 kids. Apparently several parents had requested me as the coach even though I'd never had their kids before. I evaluated them and came to the conclusion on a scale of 1-5 (5 being very skilled) I had a whole squad of 3's with maybe two 4's - one being my son. (he's more obsessive than i am. soccer is what he does by his choice, not mine) Usually there are a couple of 1's and 2's, but not this time. We had our first game a week ago and we tore the team up. It was 12-0 at the end. I felt bad, they felt bad. Normally if I'm really beating a team badly I'll put my less aggressive players up front and put a leash on my real shooters. It just didn't work. 8 different players scored. I had a meeting with my kids' parents. I asked if there were any parents willing to move their kids to the other team to even things out and they would get more playing time. 3 of the top 5 skilled players moved over. 2 moved up an age bracket.

I felt pretty good going into this saturday's game. I had nine players total (7 on the field at a time). We were playing a team that on paper had us severely outclassed, but I figured my kid's would have fun, get lots of touches on the ball and it would give us something to learn about for the next practice. I asked the referee to quit changing the score board 15 minutes into the first period. The score sheet at the end said we beat them 16-3. This is not cool.

I honestly don't know what to do. It's not as simple as just moving weaker players forward. I've got two girls that spend more time waving at their moms than playing who scored. I left them as forwards. These kids just gelled really quickly. They spread out, they find space, they pass, they take the follow up shots. There is not one player on the team that was really unstoppable (mine has the potential but I kept him in the goal for the whole second period) - every kid played unselfishly and it showed on the scoreboard.

All that to say this - what do I do? Dismantling the team is not an option. On paper we aren't nearly as strong as the other 7 teams in the league to begin with - and I only have 9 kids left anyway. But I don't want to create hard feelings with parents' of other teams because they think we're stacking the team and running up the score. So what do I do? I refuse to tell my kids to give anything less than their best effort. That isn't good for the kids and only breeds resentment.

As I type I'm contemplating spending my afternoon calling the parents from saturday's other team to apologize and explain that running up the score was not my intent. I want these people to enjoy the game and want to keep playing. It is embarrassing.

As a parent what would you want to see happen?

Clodfobble · 12-10-2007, 02:13 PM

Is there any possibility that you are humbly refusing to acknowledge the role your own coaching may be having in making these average kids magically become great players? Or maybe it's just that the other coaches really suck. I played on a softball team once that lost every single game, by a minimum of ten points. In retrospect, I have realized that we were just as average as the other teams, but we had suck-ass coaches who took the whole "we're just here to have fun" thing to the extreme of never helping us improve. (We had girls throwing with the wrong leg forward, for example, and they never said anything, through the whole season.)

Perhaps you could hold practices together with the other team(s), that way the other kids can learn from either you or your awesome kids, whichever it really is.

lookout123 · 12-10-2007, 02:26 PM

Both of those coaches are ultra competitive "win at all costs" types. I play against both of them in the adult leagues. Collaboration is unlikely. One of them would like to physically injure me, the other has specifically said I'm a lousy coach and shouldn't be allowed to waste kid's time.

Honestly, they are each better "skills and drills" coaches than I am anyway. My main goal is to teach kids how to think on the field and have fun. You may be able to dribble fast, pass straight, and shoot hard, but what good does it do if you aren't sure which one to do in a given situation?

kerosene · 12-10-2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Perhaps you could hold practices together with the other team(s), that way the other kids can learn from either you or your awesome kids, whichever it really is.

I like this idea...perhaps mix all the kids up in scrimmages...then see how they perform. I think this would make it feel less antagonistic for the kids of other teams.

kerosene · 12-10-2007, 02:30 PM

Ah, nevermind. Too late.

classicman · 12-10-2007, 02:31 PM

I was the asst. coach for years from U-8 to U-14 kids and we won a lot of games due to our head coach (NOT ME) being nothing short of spectacular. Once up by 5 goals we directed our players to progressively:
1) defensive players & offense players switch positions
extreme rotations too - every throw-in or opportunity. Keeps the clock running.
2) no shots until a minimum of 5 offensive passes
3) no shots unless with opposite foot - left footed shoot right and vice versa.
4) no shots period - play keep away
5) Pull a player - mostly when we were 11 a side, but still an option.
6) only 2 players allowed to cross a particular point - ie: midfield

The point is to be creative with pulling your kids back and not expressly letting the other team know it. This lets everyone save face and get some action instead of destroying the other teams confidence. It also teaches your kids some great lessons in sportmanship and humanity.

monster · 12-10-2007, 09:40 PM

It's always that way, there's always one team that beats them all. If you try to fix it too much, you're going to spoil the game. Holding your kids back too much will eventually spoil their enjoyment and piss their parents off. Invite some of the newbs/1s and 2s from the other teams on to your team. Or some different newbs altogether Move to a different league.

Don't keep score. Keep a different score for your team -sure, celebrate their goals, but create your only little side game -3 points for an assist, 1 point for a pass with the "wrong" foot. Do they play offside? If not, teach them to play to that rule even if the oppo isn't.

How many games have you played so far? Just the two?

LJ · 12-10-2007, 10:44 PM

change the team name to The Patriots, and run up the score!

ZenGum · 12-10-2007, 10:55 PM

What a dilemma!
If you can get a team to click immediately, I believe England are looking for a new coach.

Seriously,I think it's great that you are worrying about the other team's morale, but I think you're overdoing it. Remember, they only get beaten by your kids once, then next week play someone else, and maybe win. One thrashing a season is acceptable. You aren't really responsible for the other team's feelings, except for keeping the behavior of your kids polite and sporting in victory. No gloating.
I think you'd do more harm to your kids (and they're your primary responsibility here) by stopping them from doing their best. I think you're already doing enough to make things harder for them with your creative substitutions, and your thinning of your team.
The only risk I see is your kids turning into arrogant jerks because they always thrash their opponents. How to behave in victory is as important a lesson as in defeat. Apart from that ... let 'em win.

lookout123 · 12-10-2007, 11:37 PM

yeah, thanks - but i'll pass on the england job. just not enough talent in that bunch.

but seriously the more i think about it there really isn't much to be done but just have fun. i'm not worried about my kids getting out of hand. they're a good bunch and i do work on sportsmanship issues with them.

it has only been two weeks in this session with 8 more to go but i've been coaching in this club for 2.5 years now so i know pretty much everyone involved and most of the kids too. the two teams we've beat are on the higher side quality wise but the toughest team by far is this coming saturday. i've coached every single kid on that team at least one season and they're good.

i do have little tracking games i keep tabs on throughout the season and i do set goals for the kids individually so i'll figure something out. my own kid was pretty selfish with the ball about a year ago so i had to set the rule with him that he had to have 1 assist before he was allowed to take a shot on goal. it worked well with him, i may try that with a couple others.

anyway, i live in the kids' soccer world so my perspective is a little skewed. I guess i was just looking for thoughts from parents of what they're thoughts would be if they saw their kids' team get trampled.

classicman · 12-11-2007, 07:46 AM

Depends on how they are getting trampled - 2 sons both played travel soccer for years. When the other teams players are in oyur face and making a mockery of your kids, it is pretty tough to take as a parent and a player. On the other hand, if you are getting your asses kicked and the other team is not arrogant it still sucks, but isn't quite as bad. Thats why I made the suggestions that worked for our teams. Good Luck Sat.!

glatt · 12-11-2007, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

anyway, i live in the kids' soccer world so my perspective is a little skewed. I guess i was just looking for thoughts from parents of what they're thoughts would be if they saw their kids' team get trampled.

My daughter's team get trampled some times and wins some times. It would be a little demoralizing to get absolutely creamed in one game, but there's always next week. I honestly wouldn't worry about it. Getting creamed every once in a while is good to keep your ego in check.

SteveDallas · 12-11-2007, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

. . . i had to set the rule with him that he had to have 1 assist before he was allowed to take a shot on goal. it worked well with him, i may try that with a couple others.

I like that rule. I think you should make every single player on the team use it. Oh, and tell each of them privately, and warn them not to tell anybody else. I guarantee you'll have really fun games.

Undertoad · 12-11-2007, 08:58 AM

But SD, if every player has to have an assist before they shoot, nobody will ever score!

ZenGum · 12-11-2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

But SD, if every player has to have an assist before they shoot, nobody will ever score!

I thought that was the point ... watch them pass frantically amongst themselves trying to set each other up ...
Or is your tongue even further in your cheek than SD's is in his?

12-10-2007, 02:06 PM	#1
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Kid's sports - parent's perspective needed OK, as many of you know I coach kid's soccer. Currently I handle a rec league Under 8 team. I took a season off so I could focus on business so I had to form a new team from scratch this time around. Usually when a new team forms the results are pretty terrible because I don't recruit or go looking for special talents, I just grab the 8-11 kids + my own that don't belong to a team yet and go from there. It is a learning and building process. This time it is a bit different though. I showed up to the first practice to find that I had 14 kids. Apparently several parents had requested me as the coach even though I'd never had their kids before. I evaluated them and came to the conclusion on a scale of 1-5 (5 being very skilled) I had a whole squad of 3's with maybe two 4's - one being my son. (he's more obsessive than i am. soccer is what he does by his choice, not mine) Usually there are a couple of 1's and 2's, but not this time. We had our first game a week ago and we tore the team up. It was 12-0 at the end. I felt bad, they felt bad. Normally if I'm really beating a team badly I'll put my less aggressive players up front and put a leash on my real shooters. It just didn't work. 8 different players scored. I had a meeting with my kids' parents. I asked if there were any parents willing to move their kids to the other team to even things out and they would get more playing time. 3 of the top 5 skilled players moved over. 2 moved up an age bracket. I felt pretty good going into this saturday's game. I had nine players total (7 on the field at a time). We were playing a team that on paper had us severely outclassed, but I figured my kid's would have fun, get lots of touches on the ball and it would give us something to learn about for the next practice. I asked the referee to quit changing the score board 15 minutes into the first period. The score sheet at the end said we beat them 16-3. This is not cool. I honestly don't know what to do. It's not as simple as just moving weaker players forward. I've got two girls that spend more time waving at their moms than playing who scored. I left them as forwards. These kids just gelled really quickly. They spread out, they find space, they pass, they take the follow up shots. There is not one player on the team that was really unstoppable (mine has the potential but I kept him in the goal for the whole second period) - every kid played unselfishly and it showed on the scoreboard. All that to say this - what do I do? Dismantling the team is not an option. On paper we aren't nearly as strong as the other 7 teams in the league to begin with - and I only have 9 kids left anyway. But I don't want to create hard feelings with parents' of other teams because they think we're stacking the team and running up the score. So what do I do? I refuse to tell my kids to give anything less than their best effort. That isn't good for the kids and only breeds resentment. As I type I'm contemplating spending my afternoon calling the parents from saturday's other team to apologize and explain that running up the score was not my intent. I want these people to enjoy the game and want to keep playing. It is embarrassing. As a parent what would you want to see happen? __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

12-10-2007, 02:26 PM	#3
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Both of those coaches are ultra competitive "win at all costs" types. I play against both of them in the adult leagues. Collaboration is unlikely. One of them would like to physically injure me, the other has specifically said I'm a lousy coach and shouldn't be allowed to waste kid's time. Honestly, they are each better "skills and drills" coaches than I am anyway. My main goal is to teach kids how to think on the field and have fun. You may be able to dribble fast, pass straight, and shoot hard, but what good does it do if you aren't sure which one to do in a given situation? __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

12-10-2007, 09:40 PM	#7
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	It's always that way, there's always one team that beats them all. If you try to fix it too much, you're going to spoil the game. Holding your kids back too much will eventually spoil their enjoyment and piss their parents off. Invite some of the newbs/1s and 2s from the other teams on to your team. Or some different newbs altogether Move to a different league. Don't keep score. Keep a different score for your team -sure, celebrate their goals, but create your only little side game -3 points for an assist, 1 point for a pass with the "wrong" foot. Do they play offside? If not, teach them to play to that rule even if the oppo isn't. How many games have you played so far? Just the two? __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

12-10-2007, 10:44 PM	#8
LJ i am myself Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: via blackberry, maybe Posts: 750	change the team name to The Patriots, and run up the score! __________________ Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, or whether that station will be held by anybody else, these pages must show ... -C.Dickens

12-10-2007, 10:55 PM	#9
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	What a dilemma! If you can get a team to click immediately, I believe England are looking for a new coach. Seriously,I think it's great that you are worrying about the other team's morale, but I think you're overdoing it. Remember, they only get beaten by your kids once, then next week play someone else, and maybe win. One thrashing a season is acceptable. You aren't really responsible for the other team's feelings, except for keeping the behavior of your kids polite and sporting in victory. No gloating. I think you'd do more harm to your kids (and they're your primary responsibility here) by stopping them from doing their best. I think you're already doing enough to make things harder for them with your creative substitutions, and your thinning of your team. The only risk I see is your kids turning into arrogant jerks because they always thrash their opponents. How to behave in victory is as important a lesson as in defeat. Apart from that ... let 'em win. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl. Last edited by ZenGum; 12-10-2007 at 10:56 PM. Reason: Apostrophe-man strike's again!

12-10-2007, 02:13 PM	#2
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Is there any possibility that you are humbly refusing to acknowledge the role your own coaching may be having in making these average kids magically become great players? Or maybe it's just that the other coaches really suck. I played on a softball team once that lost every single game, by a minimum of ten points. In retrospect, I have realized that we were just as average as the other teams, but we had suck-ass coaches who took the whole "we're just here to have fun" thing to the extreme of never helping us improve. (We had girls throwing with the wrong leg forward, for example, and they never said anything, through the whole season.) Perhaps you could hold practices together with the other team(s), that way the other kids can learn from either you or your awesome kids, whichever it really is.

12-10-2007, 02:30 PM	#5
kerosene Touring the facilities Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The plains of Colorado Posts: 3,476	Ah, nevermind. Too late.

12-10-2007, 02:31 PM	#6
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	I was the asst. coach for years from U-8 to U-14 kids and we won a lot of games due to our head coach (NOT ME) being nothing short of spectacular. Once up by 5 goals we directed our players to progressively: 1) defensive players & offense players switch positions extreme rotations too - every throw-in or opportunity. Keeps the clock running. 2) no shots until a minimum of 5 offensive passes 3) no shots unless with opposite foot - left footed shoot right and vice versa. 4) no shots period - play keep away 5) Pull a player - mostly when we were 11 a side, but still an option. 6) only 2 players allowed to cross a particular point - ie: midfield The point is to be creative with pulling your kids back and not expressly letting the other team know it. This lets everyone save face and get some action instead of destroying the other teams confidence. It also teaches your kids some great lessons in sportmanship and humanity.

12-10-2007, 11:37 PM	#10
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	yeah, thanks - but i'll pass on the england job. just not enough talent in that bunch. but seriously the more i think about it there really isn't much to be done but just have fun. i'm not worried about my kids getting out of hand. they're a good bunch and i do work on sportsmanship issues with them. it has only been two weeks in this session with 8 more to go but i've been coaching in this club for 2.5 years now so i know pretty much everyone involved and most of the kids too. the two teams we've beat are on the higher side quality wise but the toughest team by far is this coming saturday. i've coached every single kid on that team at least one season and they're good. i do have little tracking games i keep tabs on throughout the season and i do set goals for the kids individually so i'll figure something out. my own kid was pretty selfish with the ball about a year ago so i had to set the rule with him that he had to have 1 assist before he was allowed to take a shot on goal. it worked well with him, i may try that with a couple others. anyway, i live in the kids' soccer world so my perspective is a little skewed. I guess i was just looking for thoughts from parents of what they're thoughts would be if they saw their kids' team get trampled. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

12-11-2007, 07:46 AM	#11
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Depends on how they are getting trampled - 2 sons both played travel soccer for years. When the other teams players are in oyur face and making a mockery of your kids, it is pretty tough to take as a parent and a player. On the other hand, if you are getting your asses kicked and the other team is not arrogant it still sucks, but isn't quite as bad. Thats why I made the suggestions that worked for our teams. Good Luck Sat.!

12-11-2007, 08:58 AM	#14
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	But SD, if every player has to have an assist before they shoot, nobody will ever score!

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