Ch-ch-ch-changes.

DanaC · 03-31-2009, 07:11 AM

Has the Cellar changed you in any way? I ask because recently I was talking to a friend about the Cellar and I decided that I have changed quite a lot across the half decade of being a Dwellar.

I think I have mellowed. Quite a lot really. Certainly, I have mellowed on politics and religion. I am still a pinko heathen, but I have very little anger now for the other side to that equation. How much of that is my day to day interactions in the meatworld and how much is down to the Cellar I'm not wholly sure, but I think the Cellar is a huge factor. Long term friendship with people who have vastly differing world views is not something generally on offer in my day to day life. There's variance amongst my friends, but on the whole we exist along a fairly narrow spectrum.

Part of it is the recent work done in academia about the origins of political persuasions and moral frameworks. Once it becomes a matter of brain chemistry...how can I in any way place greater moral weight on my persuasion? Oh, don't get me wrong, I still think I am right, I still think they are wrong. I still find the right cold and unforgiving. I still see the left as more humane, more caring. But that doesn't mean people on the right are cold, nor that people on the left are caring.

That piece on TED about moral origins had a profound effect on me. It added to bits I'd read and seen and which had been floating around my head looking for a hook for a little while. The necessity for both. That took some serious thinking to get my head around, but it makes perfect sense. It still requires that both sides fight the other for the right to set the tone...but unless you're wacked out on the edges of that contest, there is little reason for the level of vitriol that generally purtains to it. It is, and this has surprised the fuck out of me, I do assure you, more than possible to maintain respect, liking and friendship across that chasm.

That last bit, is where the Cellar comes in. I have had friends of different political persuasions, but I don't think I ever understood their perspective like I do now.

So...has the Cellar changed you? If so, how?

glatt · 03-31-2009, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

I have had friends of different political persuasions, but I don't think I ever understood their perspective like I do now.

This is how the Cellar has changed me too.

sweetwater · 03-31-2009, 08:27 AM

Writing has a way of encouraging one to review, consider, and moderate one's responses and arguments to support one's own opinions, and to allow time to review and consider another's arguments at leisure, too. That makes for a more equitable exchange of information (the loudest and more dominant personalities don't have such an advantage here) and that also keeps the door open for different points of view to enter. I think my knowledge and respect for the reasons behind opposing opinions of others has helped me to focus on the issue rather than the people. I hope I have always been thus, but I know I am better now. I can translate that into RL interactions. That is a good change!

Undertoad · 03-31-2009, 10:23 AM

+1 humility
+1 compassion
+2 understanding of the human condition
+3 writing ability
+1 critical thinking skills
+2 general knowledge

+100 people I'd consider friends

Queen of the Ryche · 03-31-2009, 11:51 AM

Amen UT. Well said. Am I the only one who cries sometimes when reading some of the more sincere and compassionate posts/replies/threads in the Cellar? Never creid in front of the computer before. I guess the Cellar has increased my sympathy for people I've never met.

fargon · 03-31-2009, 12:27 PM

The one thing that being a Dwellar has taught me is the people on the other side of the fence politically are just like me, we have the same hopes and dreams. I am proud to be accepted here. Like I said in my first post this is the greatest place on the web.

Undertoad · 03-31-2009, 12:46 PM

I must add

+1 Fellowship
I found that TED piece, and it astounded me like it astounded DanaC, and so I shared it. Moral: by everyone giving to the group, the sum becomes greater than its parts.

+1 Pride
DanaC saying it changed her swells me with pride. Moral: we get what we give.

dar512 · 03-31-2009, 12:51 PM

The woods contain many strange things. Morel: an edible mushroom

Not to make light of the conversation. It's a worthy discussion.

sugarpop · 03-31-2009, 07:02 PM

I haven't really been around long enough to know, but I like what everyone is saying. I would really like to see that TED piece. Does anyone have a link?

UT, the morals you used, if only people acted like that in real life, maybe we wouldn't have so many problems in the world.

DanaC · 03-31-2009, 07:07 PM

Here ya go Shug:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/j...oral_mind.html

A lot of it was stuff i knew. But he just kind of puts it all together and then extends it out to the ramifications of that.

sugarpop · 03-31-2009, 07:16 PM

Thanks Dana. Much appreciated.

TheMercenary · 03-31-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Here ya go Shug:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/j...oral_mind.html

A lot of it was stuff i knew. But he just kind of puts it all together and then extends it out to the ramifications of that.

An interesting lecture. I wonder how many of the majority of liberals did what he suggested. I wish they had more of his lectures. Insightful.

03-31-2009, 07:11 AM	#1
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Ch-ch-ch-changes. Has the Cellar changed you in any way? I ask because recently I was talking to a friend about the Cellar and I decided that I have changed quite a lot across the half decade of being a Dwellar. I think I have mellowed. Quite a lot really. Certainly, I have mellowed on politics and religion. I am still a pinko heathen, but I have very little anger now for the other side to that equation. How much of that is my day to day interactions in the meatworld and how much is down to the Cellar I'm not wholly sure, but I think the Cellar is a huge factor. Long term friendship with people who have vastly differing world views is not something generally on offer in my day to day life. There's variance amongst my friends, but on the whole we exist along a fairly narrow spectrum. Part of it is the recent work done in academia about the origins of political persuasions and moral frameworks. Once it becomes a matter of brain chemistry...how can I in any way place greater moral weight on my persuasion? Oh, don't get me wrong, I still think I am right, I still think they are wrong. I still find the right cold and unforgiving. I still see the left as more humane, more caring. But that doesn't mean people on the right are cold, nor that people on the left are caring. That piece on TED about moral origins had a profound effect on me. It added to bits I'd read and seen and which had been floating around my head looking for a hook for a little while. The necessity for both. That took some serious thinking to get my head around, but it makes perfect sense. It still requires that both sides fight the other for the right to set the tone...but unless you're wacked out on the edges of that contest, there is little reason for the level of vitriol that generally purtains to it. It is, and this has surprised the fuck out of me, I do assure you, more than possible to maintain respect, liking and friendship across that chasm. That last bit, is where the Cellar comes in. I have had friends of different political persuasions, but I don't think I ever understood their perspective like I do now. So...has the Cellar changed you? If so, how? Last edited by DanaC; 03-31-2009 at 07:35 AM.

03-31-2009, 08:27 AM	#3
sweetwater lives inside a Mobius strip Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,120	Writing has a way of encouraging one to review, consider, and moderate one's responses and arguments to support one's own opinions, and to allow time to review and consider another's arguments at leisure, too. That makes for a more equitable exchange of information (the loudest and more dominant personalities don't have such an advantage here) and that also keeps the door open for different points of view to enter. I think my knowledge and respect for the reasons behind opposing opinions of others has helped me to focus on the issue rather than the people. I hope I have always been thus, but I know I am better now. I can translate that into RL interactions. That is a good change! __________________ I knew I shoulda taken that left turn at Albuquerque! - Bugs Bunny

03-31-2009, 11:51 AM	#5
Queen of the Ryche is fleeing the scene Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Beautiful CO Posts: 1,510	Amen UT. Well said. Am I the only one who cries sometimes when reading some of the more sincere and compassionate posts/replies/threads in the Cellar? Never creid in front of the computer before. I guess the Cellar has increased my sympathy for people I've never met. __________________ Once, in an interview, Chuck Norris admitted that he was not the most awesome thing ever. He declined to elaborate; but I believe we all know that he was referring to the existence of chocolate covered bacon. I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

03-31-2009, 12:27 PM	#6
fargon Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: La Crosse, WI Posts: 8,924	The one thing that being a Dwellar has taught me is the people on the other side of the fence politically are just like me, we have the same hopes and dreams. I am proud to be accepted here. Like I said in my first post this is the greatest place on the web. __________________ Annoy the ones that ignore you!!! I live a blessed life I Love my Country, I Fear the Government!!! Heavily medicated for the good of mankind.

03-31-2009, 12:51 PM	#8
dar512 dar512 is now Pete Zicato Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburb Posts: 4,968	The woods contain many strange things. Morel: an edible mushroom Not to make light of the conversation. It's a worthy discussion. __________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." -- Friedrich Schiller

03-31-2009, 10:23 AM	#4
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	+1 humility +1 compassion +2 understanding of the human condition +3 writing ability +1 critical thinking skills +2 general knowledge +100 people I'd consider friends

03-31-2009, 12:46 PM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I must add +1 Fellowship I found that TED piece, and it astounded me like it astounded DanaC, and so I shared it. Moral: by everyone giving to the group, the sum becomes greater than its parts. +1 Pride DanaC saying it changed her swells me with pride. Moral: we get what we give.

03-31-2009, 07:02 PM	#9
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	I haven't really been around long enough to know, but I like what everyone is saying. I would really like to see that TED piece. Does anyone have a link? UT, the morals you used, if only people acted like that in real life, maybe we wouldn't have so many problems in the world.

03-31-2009, 07:07 PM	#10
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Here ya go Shug: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/j...oral_mind.html A lot of it was stuff i knew. But he just kind of puts it all together and then extends it out to the ramifications of that.

03-31-2009, 07:16 PM	#11
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	Thanks Dana. Much appreciated.

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