Bikies can't be friends anymore

[Aliantha]

In Australia there's been a large amount of violence which has been labled a 'war' between various bikie gangs. In particular, the Rebel's and the Comanchero's, but it is threatening to spill over to other gangs.

In response, the NSW government has just passed a law making it a criminal offence for gang members to be seen associating with each other in an attempt to stem the rising tide of violence.

While I can understand the motivation for such a law, I can't help but think this is an infringement of their civil liberties.

[classicman]

Whats a bikie? A motorcycle or a 3 year old on a trike?

[TheMercenary]

I don't see how they can prevent them from free association. (assuming motorcycles here). We have a lot of people who get together to ride here and many on a regular basis.

[DanaC]

During the late 80s early 90s, when rave culture kicked off over here, new laws were brought in to restrict numbers of people who could travel and congregate without licence.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Two's company, three's a gang.

[wolf]

If they were friends, this wouldn't be an issue, yah?

The problem is not so much their being friends, but rather being bitter enemies.

[ZenGum]

I've been thinking about threading this for a while, but haven't got the time to do the research to introduce it properly. Here is my half-assed attempt:

South Australia has had these laws for a few months now.
They are currently under court challenge.

The idea is that police can apply to have a certain group of people banned from associating with each other. The motorbike link is optional. The police provide the court with a list and appropriate evidence, and a judge can issue (or not) an order banning those people from seeing each other.
Appropriate evidence could be that they commit crimes with other members of the group in a regular and serious way, such as organising significant drug deals or violent crimes. See below for my One Reservation.

There is a precedent for limiting people's social interactions. A common (I think standard) parole condition is that you're not allowed to contact other parolees or ex-cons.

Australia does have some issues with bikie gangs. According to the media, and social gossip, they are deeply involved in interstate drug trades, and there have been many incidents of serious violence, including bombings and several multi-person shoot-outs. The Adelaide hydroponic industry is an example - liberal cannabis laws allowed up to 10 plants per person as non-criminal "personal use". Bikie gangs bought houses and converted them to grow-sheds, and mostly ran the drugs interstate. Home invasions and similar turf wars followed. Conspiracist rumour holds that the state government turned a blind eye because the state was in a bad financial and economic condition, and the cash was useful, but now there has been a mining boom and the govt has been cracking down (the truth of that last bit not guaranteed).

About three weeks ago four or five bikie gangs had a political ride just north of Adelaide to protest the new laws. Speeches were made, a political party was formed, a little good PR was generated.

A week later members of the Hells Angels and Comancheros happened to be on the same flight into Sydney, and although they managed to behave on the plane, a fifteen man brawl erupted in the arrivals lounge of the airport and one man was bashed to death. This was bad P.R. A week later the dead man's brother was gunned down outside his house.

In the last few months there have been several killings and a bombing or two. New South Wales (where Sydney is) adopted laws very similar to South Australia's.

In general I think the laws are a good idea, provided that it is done on a case-by-case basis and the people concerned get their chance to argue their case in court, but here is my One Reservation: the standard of evidence required in this case is lower than usual: "police intelligence" will be admitted. This could be information from an informer who is kept anonymous for their safety. While I see the point of that, this opens the door to these laws being abused against political opponents.

[Sun_Sparkz]

I feel sorry for all the (90%) of kind hearted, perfectly non-violent bikies. I know quite a few and none of them are violent.
If anything, the bikies i have been exposed to are some of the most kind and charitable people i know. Charity rides, hooaganism sure, but always fun and family orientated things. I once hosted about 25 bikes for 2 days at my farm out west about 3 years ago, when they were on their way around the state on a ride. a few stories came up like a thing they like to call the (M.C) run - which was a little mad but apart from that, id say they were the most fun, and friendliest guests i have had.

In saying that though, the city based groups in Sydney and surrounds that i do know of have had their dynamics and culture changed dramatically, and according to my father ( a biker since the 70's (biker not to be confused with bikie)) the new motives for being in a gang are usually not associated with a passion for a triumph or a harley.

I dont think the media should be sensationalising and creating a "bikie fear".
Sure - Gangs are bad when they are violent/ criminal. But that should mean any gang - wheather they bond over spraypainting, Motorbikes, muscle cars, drugs, or tapestry and tea totalling. (and as i understand some of these revised laws are against people assicociating with gangs, not just riders)


It feels like these small time cooks are getting "underbelly" fever and thinking they can act like its Goodfellas in downtown Sydney.
I think the media has a lot to answer for on this one.

[ZenGum]

You're quite right Sparky. The media leap on the bandwagon so fast they cause my metaphors to collapse.

A few months ago there was a gang-related shooting in Adelaide's Gouger street restaurant district. The media all squealed "bike gang shootout".
Gradually it came out that the bad guys had come in a mercedes and a land cruiser.

Mind you last night the SA police raided the Gypsy Jokers and siezed several dozen illegal firearms, bomb and drug making equipment, etc.

MOST motorcyclists are more or less reasonable people. Certain groups (gangs) are criminal organisations and are appropriately targetted by these new laws. The laws are similar to the laws in the US targetting organised crime, which were originally aimed at the mafia. I only wish they weren't always described as "anti-bikie-gang". They are anti-criminal-gang.

[Aliantha]

There's a difference between bikies and bikers. Bikies are the violent, organized crime related gangs.

Bikers are groups such as the Ulysese group which as we know are made up of old fart bike riders.

I don't think it's those sorts of groups they're trying to target.

[ZenGum]

Those old farts are dangerous. Some of them even sharpen their dentures!