#2 VS #14

Spexxvet · 08-04-2010, 11:01 AM

According to some people, the second amendment cannot be touched. It is part of the Constitution of The United States of America, and true patriots don't think about changing this sacred document.

According to some of the same people, the fourteenth amendment is... well... touchable.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/...amendment.html

dmg1969 · 08-04-2010, 11:57 AM

There's a big difference between the two, Spexxvet.

You can thank the 14th for encouraging people to enter the country illegally to pop out their anchor babies thus making them eligible to stay.

You can thank the 2nd for Japan not invading America during WWII.

"Admiral Yamamoto: "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." Advising Japan's military leaders of the futility of an invasion of the mainland United States because of the widespread availability of guns. It has been theorized that this was a major contributing factor in Japan's decision not to land on North America early in the war when they had vastly superior military strength. This delay gave our industrial infrastructure time to gear up for the conflict and was decisive in our later victory. "

Undertoad · 08-04-2010, 12:01 PM

http://factcheck.org/2009/05/misquoting-yamamoto/

Quote:

But this quote is unsubstantiated and almost certainly bogus, even though it has been repeated thousands of times in various Internet postings. There is no record of the commander in chief of Japan’s wartime fleet ever saying it.

dmg1969 · 08-04-2010, 12:05 PM

OK...you can dispute that quote. Neither of us were there. Here a few more.

Adolf Hitler: "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country." Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Table Talk 1941-44: His Private Conversations, Second Edition (1973), Pg. 425-426. Translated by Norman Cameron and R. H. Stevens.

John F. Kennedy: "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."

John F. Kennedy: "By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia,' 'the security of the nation,' and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms,' our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy... The Second Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason I believe the Second Amendment will always be important." John F. Kennedy, Junior Senator of MA in a 1959 letter to E.B. Mann [From the 1974 Gun Digest, article titled Gun Laws]

James Earl Jones: "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

The Dalai Lama: "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times)

Shawnee123 · 08-04-2010, 12:16 PM

Quote:

There's a big difference between the two, Spexxvet.

No, there is not.

Either the constitution is the be-all end-all of sacred documents, or it isn't. You can't pick and choose, or so we've been told 50 billion times, because you have different feelings.

jinx · 08-04-2010, 12:19 PM

Both amendments have been touched. Repeatedly.

dmg1969 · 08-04-2010, 12:49 PM

I must strongly disagree, Shawnee.

The right to keep and bear arms is spelled out in the Constitution. You can dispute what a "well regulated militia" means all you want. The right of citizens to own firearms has been upheld by the USSC. It is not illegal for law-abiding citizens to own firearms for hunting and self protection.

It IS illegal for someone to come into the country by sneaking across the border to pop out an anchor baby (or to smuggle drugs, find work...whatever). It doesn't matter WHY they're coming here...it does not change the fact that they are in the country illegally.

I'm sure you do know that the Constitution has been tweeked from time to time. So, in that respect, you are correct. It is NOT never-changing.

To sum it up...
1. The 2nd Amendment is about freedom and protecting our democracy. Are you anti-gun people against freedom and protecting the democracy?
2. The 14th Amendment needs to be changed to close this giant loophole which allows a flood of illegals into the country. I am all in favor of the children of LEGAL immigrants being citizens because they have gone through the process to do so legally.

So, we can agree to disagree.

Shawnee123 · 08-04-2010, 01:03 PM

To sum it up...
1. The 14th Amendment is about freedom and protecting our democracy. Are you anti-foreigner people against freedom and protecting the democracy (upon which our country was founded)?
2. The 2nd Amendment needs to be changed to close this giant loophole which allows a flood of crazy people to buy semi-automatic assault rifles.

Yep, matter of perspective.

Either off limits, or not. Guess what...NOT.

lookout123 · 08-04-2010, 01:50 PM

Oh, I see what you did there. You clever girl, you.

dmg1969 · 08-04-2010, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

To sum it up...
1. The 14th Amendment is about freedom and protecting our democracy. Are you anti-foreigner people against freedom and protecting the democracy (upon which our country was founded)?

Not at all. I just ask them to come here legally like my grandparents did. That's all.

2. The 2nd Amendment needs to be changed to close this giant loophole which allows a flood of crazy people to buy semi-automatic assault rifles.

I myself am not crazy nor do I own any semi-auto rifles. Are handguns OK in your book? I own several of those and carry one for protection. Believe me...I am not against sensible gun laws and checks. Where I draw the line is an outright ban like DC and Chicago.

Yep, matter of perspective.

And that means YOUR perspective?

Either off limits, or not. Guess what...NOT.

So that means the 14th is also not off limits, right?

Awesome back and forth, Shawnee.

Shawnee123 · 08-04-2010, 02:37 PM

Hmmm, making the point that our perspectives differ but you turn it around to "my" perspective. Huh what?

As I said, they're all off limits or they're not. Yeah, I figured you would understand that I meant the 14th too. I should be more clear.

I don't give a fuck about guns, I give a fuck about people saying gun amendments are untouchable and other amendements aren't. However, you turn this into your personal agenda, it matters not to me.

Why do all y'all argue exactly the same way?

dmg1969 · 08-04-2010, 03:03 PM

I guess it's just how us God-fearing, gun-toting, freedom lovers are wired.

Shawnee123 · 08-04-2010, 03:17 PM

Awww, you're not weird, just different than me.

Oh, oops, I can't read either!

dmg1969 · 08-04-2010, 03:24 PM

Hey! Who said I'm not weird. Just ask my wife.

Gravdigr · 08-04-2010, 04:28 PM

The Constitution of the United States of America is a living document. It is changeable, and was meant to be changed, as required, by the current opinions of the American Citizenry. If the majority of those opinions line up with yours, great. If your in the minority on a given issue, not so much.

08-04-2010, 12:05 PM	#4
dmg1969 I got nothing Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central PA Posts: 486	OK...you can dispute that quote. Neither of us were there. Here a few more. Adolf Hitler: "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country." Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Table Talk 1941-44: His Private Conversations, Second Edition (1973), Pg. 425-426. Translated by Norman Cameron and R. H. Stevens. John F. Kennedy: "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." John F. Kennedy: "By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia,' 'the security of the nation,' and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms,' our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy... The Second Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason I believe the Second Amendment will always be important." John F. Kennedy, Junior Senator of MA in a 1959 letter to E.B. Mann [From the 1974 Gun Digest, article titled Gun Laws] James Earl Jones: "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose." The Dalai Lama: "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times) __________________ Void where prohibited. Your results may vary. Not intended for resale. Do not remove tag. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

08-04-2010, 12:19 PM	#6
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	Both amendments have been touched. Repeatedly. __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

08-04-2010, 12:49 PM	#7
dmg1969 I got nothing Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central PA Posts: 486	I must strongly disagree, Shawnee. The right to keep and bear arms is spelled out in the Constitution. You can dispute what a "well regulated militia" means all you want. The right of citizens to own firearms has been upheld by the USSC. It is not illegal for law-abiding citizens to own firearms for hunting and self protection. It IS illegal for someone to come into the country by sneaking across the border to pop out an anchor baby (or to smuggle drugs, find work...whatever). It doesn't matter WHY they're coming here...it does not change the fact that they are in the country illegally. I'm sure you do know that the Constitution has been tweeked from time to time. So, in that respect, you are correct. It is NOT never-changing. To sum it up... 1. The 2nd Amendment is about freedom and protecting our democracy. Are you anti-gun people against freedom and protecting the democracy? 2. The 14th Amendment needs to be changed to close this giant loophole which allows a flood of illegals into the country. I am all in favor of the children of LEGAL immigrants being citizens because they have gone through the process to do so legally. So, we can agree to disagree. __________________ Void where prohibited. Your results may vary. Not intended for resale. Do not remove tag. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

08-04-2010, 01:03 PM	#8
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	To sum it up... 1. The 14th Amendment is about freedom and protecting our democracy. Are you anti-foreigner people against freedom and protecting the democracy (upon which our country was founded)? 2. The 2nd Amendment needs to be changed to close this giant loophole which allows a flood of crazy people to buy semi-automatic assault rifles. Yep, matter of perspective. Either off limits, or not. Guess what...NOT. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

08-04-2010, 01:50 PM	#9
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	Oh, I see what you did there. You clever girl, you. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

08-04-2010, 11:01 AM	#1
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	#2 VS #14 According to some people, the second amendment cannot be touched. It is part of the Constitution of The United States of America, and true patriots don't think about changing this sacred document. According to some of the same people, the fourteenth amendment is... well... touchable. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/...amendment.html __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

08-04-2010, 11:57 AM	#2
dmg1969 I got nothing Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central PA Posts: 486	There's a big difference between the two, Spexxvet. You can thank the 14th for encouraging people to enter the country illegally to pop out their anchor babies thus making them eligible to stay. You can thank the 2nd for Japan not invading America during WWII. "Admiral Yamamoto: "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." Advising Japan's military leaders of the futility of an invasion of the mainland United States because of the widespread availability of guns. It has been theorized that this was a major contributing factor in Japan's decision not to land on North America early in the war when they had vastly superior military strength. This delay gave our industrial infrastructure time to gear up for the conflict and was decisive in our later victory. " __________________ Void where prohibited. Your results may vary. Not intended for resale. Do not remove tag. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

08-04-2010, 02:37 PM	#11
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Hmmm, making the point that our perspectives differ but you turn it around to "my" perspective. Huh what? As I said, they're all off limits or they're not. Yeah, I figured you would understand that I meant the 14th too. I should be more clear. I don't give a fuck about guns, I give a fuck about people saying gun amendments are untouchable and other amendements aren't. However, you turn this into your personal agenda, it matters not to me. Why do all y'all argue exactly the same way? __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

08-04-2010, 03:03 PM	#12
dmg1969 I got nothing Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central PA Posts: 486	I guess it's just how us God-fearing, gun-toting, freedom lovers are wired. __________________ Void where prohibited. Your results may vary. Not intended for resale. Do not remove tag. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

08-04-2010, 03:17 PM	#13
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Awww, you're not weird, just different than me. Oh, oops, I can't read either! __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

08-04-2010, 03:24 PM	#14
dmg1969 I got nothing Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central PA Posts: 486	Hey! Who said I'm not weird. Just ask my wife. __________________ Void where prohibited. Your results may vary. Not intended for resale. Do not remove tag. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.

08-04-2010, 04:28 PM	#15
Gravdigr The Un-Tuckian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: South Central...KY that is Posts: 39,517	The Constitution of the United States of America is a living document. It is changeable, and was meant to be changed, as required, by the current opinions of the American Citizenry. If the majority of those opinions line up with yours, great. If your in the minority on a given issue, not so much. __________________ These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, EPA, FBI, DEA, CDC, or FDIC. These statements are not intended to diagnose, cause, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. If you feel you have been harmed/offended by, or, disagree with any of the above statements or images, please feel free to fuck right off.

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