Traveling Wave - not in a stadium

[tw]

While doing nothing on the road, one person accidentally did an experiment:
http://www.amasci.com/amateur/traffic/trafexp.html .

[Dagnabit]

I read this web page way back when it was first written. Today I spent rush hour on I76 and remembered this page, something I hadn't thought about for YEARS. I practiced what the guy said. I don't know that I made a difference, but it was a lot easier to drive that way. Plus I could SEE that I wasn't stopping while everyone in front of me was stopping. It felt good. Maybe we can get this site into public service messages or something?

[elSicomoro]

Very interesting...it really makes sense of the "slow and steady" pace.

The one thing that people really don't seem to understand about traffic...speed limits, traffic light sequences, etc. are the way they are for a reason--because they regulate traffic. When people rush over the limit or turn on a red light, they actually cause more traffic problems. Hence, the city of Philadelphia is eliminating all right turns on red in Center City.

[tw]

Some people forget that driving is a team sport. Some players just don't know how to be team players.

[russotto]

Eliminated right-on-red in center city won't do much; people will continue to turn right (and go straight!) on red anyway. As for this guy's experiment... who knows how many traffic jams he caused BEHIND him? He may merely have caused the wave to jump miles back. His technique will only work when there's enough lower-than-capacity traffic behind him to absorb the additional load he's going to put on it by opening a gap.

The waves on I-76 seem to be caused mostly by the entrances -- the Blue Route in particular causes a big one. These aren't the same as the waves in the article, which remain without apparent cause. In any case you can't maintain a steady speed when traffic comes to a dead stop.

Speed limits are there so the cops can give you tickets for violating them. Red lights are there to regulate traffic, but they are often mistimed (Chestnut Street in West Philadelphia has been mistimed for months, the Kelly Drive lights near Falls Bridge have been mistimed for weeks) or even maliciously timed -- I've run into traffic lights timed for 10mph OVER the limit. And there's some traffic lights which won't give you a green under some circumstances.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by russotto
Eliminated right-on-red in center city won't do much; people will continue to turn right (and go straight!) on red anyway. As for this guy's experiment... who knows how many traffic jams he caused BEHIND him? He may merely have caused the wave to jump miles back. His technique will only work when there's enough lower-than-capacity traffic behind him to absorb the additional load he's going to put on it by opening a gap.

I disagree. First off, many Philadelphians are going to be up Shits Creek when red light cameras start popping up. This city sorely needs them. Too many morons jumping the gun--I have never seen this type of phenomena anywhere else. Now, regarding this pattern...there can be two (or more) arguments here--first, you should go with the flow of traffic. If everyone seems to be doing 75 on the Schuylkill, then you better do it too. But then the other argument (although these two may not be related)--slow and steady always wins in the end. I have found that even thinking about driving the speed limit on the westbound Schuylkill in the afternoon is pointless. Yet, if I gently ease on my accelerator, stay in the far left or second left lane, and relax, I tend to get over to the Boulevard from 676 faster than folks that attempt to pass me earlier on. Am I holding up traffic? Absolutely not...I'm just following basic traffic and driving rules. Plus, it doesn't hurt that I drove on one of the busiest highways in the US every day for almost 6 months (The Capital Beltway between I-270 and I-95 in suburban DC). ;-)

The waves on I-76 seem to be caused mostly by the entrances -- the Blue Route in particular causes a big one. These aren't the same as the waves in the article, which remain without apparent cause. In any case you can't maintain a steady speed when traffic comes to a dead stop.

I can agree with this. But I think this can be regulated in three ways--1) Morons on the road should give thought as to when they're getting off the highway. For example, if you get on 76 at 30th St and you're driving out to Devon, then you know damned good and well that you've got a ways to go and can stay in the left two lanes. 2) Use on-ramp signals, as some cities already have. 3) Courtesy--let people over to get onto the highway. It's a hell of a lot easier than squeezing people off until the last minute.

Speed limits are there so the cops can give you tickets for violating them. Red lights are there to regulate traffic, but they are often mistimed (Chestnut Street in West Philadelphia has been mistimed for months, the Kelly Drive lights near Falls Bridge have been mistimed for weeks) or even maliciously timed -- I've run into traffic lights timed for 10mph OVER the limit. And there's some traffic lights which won't give you a green under some circumstances.

I don't doubt this. One of the worst stoplights IMO is at the Boulevard and Grant Ave. The timing just sucks...and too many people try to run through a red light to turn onto the Boulevard from either direction on Grant.

On a side note, I'm wondering what the hell is going on--they've lowered the speed limit on several streets here in the Northeast, particularly Academy Road north of Grant Ave. and Frankford Ave. between Linden Ave. and the City Line (both went from 35 to 30). I could understand Frankford--it has houses on the street, Torresdale Playground, and Holy Family College. Academy Road is relatively barren between Red Lion Rd. and Grant Ave., other than the Farm and the NE Airport. NO ONE seems to do the speed limit anyway--I'd say the average speed is around 50.

[russotto]

Originally posted by sycamore

I disagree. First off, many Philadelphians are going to be up Shits Creek when red light cameras start popping up.

They still aren't legal in PA. And considering the number of police cars they'd catch, I think they'll be quite a bit of resistance to implementing them in Philadelphia. If they become legal, expect light timings to be adjusted in order to catch more motorists.

I have found that even thinking about driving the speed limit on the westbound Schuylkill in the afternoon is pointless. Yet, if I gently ease on my accelerator, stay in the far left or second left lane, and relax, I tend to get over to the Boulevard from 676 faster than folks that attempt to pass me earlier on. Am I holding up traffic?

I find that on the part of the Schuylkill I drive, you just have to know when to be where. Left lane from 202 to Blue Route, right lane to get past the mess at the Blue Route, right lane until the Gladwyn entrance, where there's a judgement call (is it worth it to try to get left long enough to avoid merging traffic?), right lane until the Belmont exit, left lane from then until Rt 1 at least.

lanes. 2) Use on-ramp signals, as some cities already have.

IMO, metering signals are a dumb idea. They move your backup from the major road to the surface grid, creating gridlock. And they can't help the Blue Route interchange.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by russotto
They still aren't legal in PA. And considering the number of police cars they'd catch, I think they'll be quite a bit of resistance to implementing them in Philadelphia. If they become legal, expect light timings to be adjusted in order to catch more motorists.

You don't really mean to tell me that police cars of all people would be held accountable now, do you? ;-)

Now the District of Columbia was busted on the timing issue. They had a light on N. Capitol St. near Union Station. There wasn't a street there, just a crosswalk. But apparently, they tricked out the timing, catching countless cars. After complaints, and after checking the timing, it was deemed illegal, and the camera was supposedly removed.

Now, what do you mean by "they still aren't legal"? Is there some sort of state law against them?

The other problem I see with traffic cameras is simple--no front license plates here in PA. You'd have to make sure that the back end pictures come out very well.

IMO, metering signals are a dumb idea. They move your backup from the major road to the surface grid, creating gridlock. And they can't help the Blue Route interchange.

I can see your point. The biggest problem with the Schuylkill can't be easily rectified (2 lanes after City Ave.). I think metering could help on the stretch that runs through the city (especially at South St.), but in the end, common sense and courtesy would be the ultimate solution.

[russotto]

Originally posted by sycamore

You don't really mean to tell me that police cars of all people would be held accountable now, do you? ;-)

Held accountable, no. Embarrassed, yes.

Now, what do you mean by "they still aren't legal"? Is there some sort of state law against them?

There's no state law authorizing them. A picture of your car wouldn't be considered evidence of violation without a statute authorizing them.