Thinking outside the Cellar box

Undertoad · 05-08-2003, 09:39 AM

Last night I was driving around listening to music, and it occurred to me that we really ought to have some sort of better way to share our music choices.

I casually brain-stormed the idea of Cellar folks: what we're listening to. Let's see, ideally, a Cellar user could upload a 30-second clip of a song that they like, and a few lines of text of why they like it, or why they recommend it. In blog format you'd see a single page with the latest entries from anyone, in reverse date order. You'd click on their item and it would ship the mp3 clip to you, which would stream if it could. So you could hear what they're talking about as you read their item.

Already there are a bunch of really hard problems to solve. Almost nobody has the right tools to create those clips, for example.

But that's what brainstorming is about.

Another idea is some sort of expanded profile where we could share more information about ourselves if we like.

That Guy · 05-08-2003, 10:18 AM

What about the bandwidth? (for the music, not the profiles)

Expanded profile? I don't even use all the fields I have now. I like the music idea, though.

juju · 05-08-2003, 10:24 AM

How about if we search for the music we're listening to on Amazon.com, and then link to the audio clips that are available there? Amazon's audio clips are typically about 30 seconds, and are in WMA and Realaudio format. The only downside is that while the WMA files sound okay, the Realaudio clips sound horrible.

For example, I've been listening to Dream Theater recently. Here's a few clips:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/cl...049079-2439927 (WMA)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/cl...049079-2439927 (WMA)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/cl...049079-2439927 (RA)

The upside to this idea is that it requires no audio editing software. The downside is that if your artist isn't listed on amazon.com, you can't link to audio of them.

smoothmoniker · 05-08-2003, 11:47 AM

UT, I like the idea, but this seems like something the RIAA would jump all over.

I love the fact that they jump all over file sharing, but they don't seem to mind the fact that Sony and Warner are sitting on a ton of my royalty checks.

Oh well.

-sm

juju · 05-08-2003, 12:03 PM

Well, they'd have to sue Amazon.com if we were just linking to them. OTOH, I'm not sure how Amazon feels about deep linking. My thoughts: screw 'em.

juju · 05-08-2003, 12:07 PM

Crap, my links don't work from other computers. I guess you have to have the right "cookie". Oh well, so much for that idea.

Undertoad · 05-08-2003, 02:21 PM

Well then we can do it until RIAA notices and sends a cease-and-desist.

Fuck them anyway. 30 seconds is absolutely fair use and I'm willing to use all of Radar's legal resources to prove it.

I used to make illegal "mix tapes" for my friends just because I was so excited about certain music. Totally illegal, and I included postal mail across state lines to do it. They would have shut me down immediately, yet I must have sold people on buying several hundred discs they wouldn't have bought otherwise, because they liked what they heard and couldn't hear it any other way.

Laws are just a guideline, let's do what we want and do what's right.

Griff · 05-08-2003, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad

Fuck them anyway. 30 seconds is absolutely fair use and I'm willing to use all of Radar's legal resources to prove it.

LOL!

I was thinking about the same thing. When I try to describe music verbally with no backup, it doesn't always work. A nice clip would be just the thing. We're off to see Gary Primach tonight, maybe his will be the official blues band of Cellarites. Its all about branding.

juju · 05-08-2003, 03:07 PM

Well, I searched a little for an audio editing tool and came across mp3DirectCut. Well, okay, I admit, I didn't really look that hard. This is actually the first one I tried. But it looks okay.

Plusses:<ul type=square><li>It's freeware.
<li>It's small. The executable is only 40k.
<li>It doesn't require installation. Just unzip it and click on the executable.
<li>It doesn't decode and re-encode the files. It just edits them as mp3s. This make the cutting process very fast. Just highlight a 30-second selection, go to the file menu and select "save selection", and you're done. It's nearly instantanous.
</ul>Minuses:<ul type=square><li>Will people actually download a program in order to make a clip? Well, I'm a Cellar addict, so I know I would.
<li>It's Windows-only (I'm sure Linux and Mac users are smart enough to figure something out for themselves).
<li>Still bandwidth-intensive if the Cellar hosts the files. I made a 30-second clip of a 128kbps mp3 and it came out to 470k.

That Guy · 05-08-2003, 10:52 PM

One thing I'd like to see is how many ignore lists I'm on.

Is that possible?

Undertoad · 05-09-2003, 08:16 AM

Not with the standard software. But I can tell you: there are only a few users with ignore lists, and you aren't on any of them.

05-09-2003, 08:22 AM

How many am I on? I know at least one (or one person implied it before), but it would be cool to know how many.

Double points if I'm on them all.

Undertoad · 05-09-2003, 08:26 AM

I'm not all that worried about bandwidth for this kind of thing, because I doubt many of us are going to go nuts with it. I'm just looking for different ways for us to share stuff.

sm, I've heard Pete Townshend say the same sort of thing wrt file sharing -- in order to actually do some Who tours they've had tobuy rights to some of their own material. Then after the tour they never actually got paid expected royalties for any of it. So what the hell? The whole system is so pathetically corrupt.

I prefer to set my own rules based on what seems right. I download at will but if I wind up listening to anything regularly, I buy it. The exception is if something is out of print - that, I will listen to and share routinely because there is no excuse for anything to be out of print in the 2000s.

05-09-2003, 08:30 AM

Speaking of, Mindless Self Indulgence's "Tight" is out of print, and it's a great fuckin' CD. Jenni had a copy, but her ex stole it, and then finally gave it back, but my damn sister lost it. So now we don't have it, and we can't buy it anywhere.

Sucktacular.

I'm hoping it'll be available on iTMS eventually, so I can buy it. I do like to support the artist whenever possible, but Tony's right - there's really no excuse for anything to be out of print.

juju · 05-09-2003, 10:26 AM

So, what are the other "really hard problems" that we have to solve?

05-08-2003, 09:39 AM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Thinking outside the Cellar box Last night I was driving around listening to music, and it occurred to me that we really ought to have some sort of better way to share our music choices. I casually brain-stormed the idea of Cellar folks: what we're listening to. Let's see, ideally, a Cellar user could upload a 30-second clip of a song that they like, and a few lines of text of why they like it, or why they recommend it. In blog format you'd see a single page with the latest entries from anyone, in reverse date order. You'd click on their item and it would ship the mp3 clip to you, which would stream if it could. So you could hear what they're talking about as you read their item. Already there are a bunch of really hard problems to solve. Almost nobody has the right tools to create those clips, for example. But that's what brainstorming is about. Another idea is some sort of expanded profile where we could share more information about ourselves if we like.

05-08-2003, 10:18 AM	#2
That Guy He who reads, sometimes writes. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: at the keyboard Posts: 791	What about the bandwidth? (for the music, not the profiles) Expanded profile? I don't even use all the fields I have now. I like the music idea, though.

05-08-2003, 10:24 AM	#3
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	How about if we search for the music we're listening to on Amazon.com, and then link to the audio clips that are available there? Amazon's audio clips are typically about 30 seconds, and are in WMA and Realaudio format. The only downside is that while the WMA files sound okay, the Realaudio clips sound horrible. For example, I've been listening to Dream Theater recently. Here's a few clips: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/cl...049079-2439927 (WMA) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/cl...049079-2439927 (WMA) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/cl...049079-2439927 (RA) The upside to this idea is that it requires no audio editing software. The downside is that if your artist isn't listed on amazon.com, you can't link to audio of them.

05-08-2003, 11:47 AM	#4
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	UT, I like the idea, but this seems like something the RIAA would jump all over. I love the fact that they jump all over file sharing, but they don't seem to mind the fact that Sony and Warner are sitting on a ton of my royalty checks. Oh well. -sm

05-08-2003, 12:03 PM	#5
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Well, they'd have to sue Amazon.com if we were just linking to them. OTOH, I'm not sure how Amazon feels about deep linking. My thoughts: screw 'em.

05-08-2003, 12:07 PM	#6
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Crap, my links don't work from other computers. I guess you have to have the right "cookie". Oh well, so much for that idea.

05-08-2003, 02:21 PM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Well then we can do it until RIAA notices and sends a cease-and-desist. Fuck them anyway. 30 seconds is absolutely fair use and I'm willing to use all of Radar's legal resources to prove it. I used to make illegal "mix tapes" for my friends just because I was so excited about certain music. Totally illegal, and I included postal mail across state lines to do it. They would have shut me down immediately, yet I must have sold people on buying several hundred discs they wouldn't have bought otherwise, because they liked what they heard and couldn't hear it any other way. Laws are just a guideline, let's do what we want and do what's right.

05-08-2003, 03:07 PM	#9
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Well, I searched a little for an audio editing tool and came across mp3DirectCut. Well, okay, I admit, I didn't really look that hard. This is actually the first one I tried. But it looks okay. Plusses:<ul type=square><li>It's freeware. <li>It's small. The executable is only 40k. <li>It doesn't require installation. Just unzip it and click on the executable. <li>It doesn't decode and re-encode the files. It just edits them as mp3s. This make the cutting process very fast. Just highlight a 30-second selection, go to the file menu and select "save selection", and you're done. It's nearly instantanous. </ul>Minuses:<ul type=square><li>Will people actually download a program in order to make a clip? Well, I'm a Cellar addict, so I know I would. <li>It's Windows-only (I'm sure Linux and Mac users are smart enough to figure something out for themselves). <li>Still bandwidth-intensive if the Cellar hosts the files. I made a 30-second clip of a 128kbps mp3 and it came out to 470k.

05-08-2003, 10:52 PM	#10
That Guy He who reads, sometimes writes. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: at the keyboard Posts: 791	One thing I'd like to see is how many ignore lists I'm on. Is that possible?

05-09-2003, 08:16 AM	#11
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Not with the standard software. But I can tell you: there are only a few users with ignore lists, and you aren't on any of them.

05-09-2003, 08:22 AM	#12
dave Guest Posts: n/a	How many am I on? I know at least one (or one person implied it before), but it would be cool to know how many. Double points if I'm on them all.

05-09-2003, 08:26 AM	#13
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I'm not all that worried about bandwidth for this kind of thing, because I doubt many of us are going to go nuts with it. I'm just looking for different ways for us to share stuff. sm, I've heard Pete Townshend say the same sort of thing wrt file sharing -- in order to actually do some Who tours they've had tobuy rights to some of their own material. Then after the tour they never actually got paid expected royalties for any of it. So what the hell? The whole system is so pathetically corrupt. I prefer to set my own rules based on what seems right. I download at will but if I wind up listening to anything regularly, I buy it. The exception is if something is out of print - that, I will listen to and share routinely because there is no excuse for anything to be out of print in the 2000s.

05-09-2003, 08:30 AM	#14
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Speaking of, Mindless Self Indulgence's "Tight" is out of print, and it's a great fuckin' CD. Jenni had a copy, but her ex stole it, and then finally gave it back, but my damn sister lost it. So now we don't have it, and we can't buy it anywhere. Sucktacular. I'm hoping it'll be available on iTMS eventually, so I can buy it. I do like to support the artist whenever possible, but Tony's right - there's really no excuse for anything to be out of print.

05-09-2003, 10:26 AM	#15
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	So, what are the other "really hard problems" that we have to solve?

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