U.S. Helicopters filmed firing into crowd of civilians

[hot_pastrami]

A Reuters reporter and cameraman were filming a report in front of a crowd which had gathered around a Bradley fighting vehicle which had been damaged several hours previous. While filming, U.S. helicopters showed up and fired into the crowd.

From a Telegraph article:

None of the three heard the helicopters until it was too late. As Tumeizi spoke into the camera, the first gunship opened fire. Within seconds, all three men had been hit.

The footage released by al-Arabiya shows him pointing to the smoke billowing out of the Bradley moments before the helicopters began firing.

"It gave no warning," Khalil said. "Everything happened so quickly. We fell to the ground. I heard Mazen shout 'I'm going to die! I'm going to die!'

"I crawled across to him. I could see it was bad. He was on his front and his back was open. He couldn't breathe properly. 'It's all right,' I said. 'Don't be afraid. Help is coming.' I don't know if he heard me. He couldn't speak. He was moaning quietly."

With a broken leg, shrapnel injuries to his stomach and head wounds, Khalil could do little to help his friend. Fouad too was badly hurt while, further away, Guardian and Getty Images reporter Ghaith Abdul Ahad was nursing a head wound. "Around us were others dead or injured. People ran away but then some came back to help."

As they did, the helicopters made another pass again opening fire, Khalil said. "People trying to help us were wounded or ran away. After a minute, the helicopters came back and fired again. They came three or four times."

Within 10 minutes of their arrival at hospital, Tumeizi was dead. An 11-year-old girl brought in at the same time also died, one of 13 killed in the incident, according to health ministry officials.

From Another article:

"I am a journalist. I'm dying, I'm dying," screamed Mazen al-Tumeizi, a correspondent for the Arabic television channel al-Arabiya, after shrapnel from a rocket fired by an American helicopter interrupted his live broadcast and slammed into his back.

Twelve others were killed and 61 wounded by rockets from two US helicopters on Haifa Street in central Baghdad. They had fired into a crowd milling around a burning Bradley fighting vehicle that had been hit by a rocket or bomb hours before.

This story, and the others like it, makes me ill. I think it's a safe bet that Bush is responsible for far more innocent civilian deaths in Iraq than Saddam ever was. Meanwhile, Osama sits comfortably in a cave somewhere while Bush is busy using his military for a personal agenda.

I know this topic has been beaten to death, but once in a while something truly appalling happens that reminds me how misguided and unspeakable our president's actions have been. God, I hope he isn't re-elected.

[warch]

Sounds like a retaliation strike. If I read correctly, one piece says that 2 US soldiers were killed in the initial ambush, the other says no death, only "slight" injuries to the soldiers. Either way, the official US line was to destroy the vehicle for the safety of civilians, the reality was probably to get back in there and strike hard where the insurgents live and work. The result is perhaps some insurgents hit and some"collateral damage". And more escalation fuel for Iraqi terrorist/insurgent recruiters. I'm not sure if this war has claimed the lives of as many civilians or political opponents yet as Saddam, but these strategies suggest we're not close to being done.

I want strong, SMART leadership now. Change will not jeopardize this mission any more than it is already in jeopardy. I think changing leadership would give us a chance. A new shot at rebuilding our alliances, our global support, strengthening our national resolve and implementing more sensitive (yes!), smart, and effective approaches to this complex crisis.
Note to Toby Keith: The liberating boot in their ass policy isnt working as planned.

[xoxoxoBruce]

The report I heard said it’s standard policy to destroy any abandoned property to deny the enemy use of anything that’s still viable. You can’t tell civilians without a program.

[tw]

The report demonstrates that US soldiers cannot even recover equipment from Baghdad streets. But we are winning this 'war on terror'? Begs a question: who are the terrorists? Reporters? Baghdad civilians? Streets even in Baghdad are too unsafe for US or Iraqi troops? Yet reporters have been saying this. Every month, Iraqi cities have become more unfriendly to Americans. Most every town north and west of Baghdad is now outside of US control. Only those echoing administration spin have not heard this.

[lookout123]

it is standard procedure to scatter any crowds away from damaged military equipment using whatever means necessary. the equipment has to be destroyed so that no hardware falls into unfriendly hands. the moral of the story is stay the hell away from US military equipment.

[Elspode]

The chopper pilots should have been able to easily see that there were news crews on site; if not on the initial run, then on subsequent runs.

Arrogance is being demonstrated. I'm not sure that is smart. Arrogant little pricks usually get their clocks cleaned by someone meaner and dumber sooner or later.

[hot_pastrami]

Originally Posted by lookout123

it is standard procedure to scatter any crowds away from damaged military equipment using whatever means necessary. the equipment has to be destroyed so that no hardware falls into unfriendly hands. the moral of the story is stay the hell away from US military equipment.

They intentionally fired missiles into a crowd of innocent civilians without warning, under orders. That is fucked up. Labeling something "standard procedure" does not make it ok. There are many ways the pilots might have tried to disperse the crowd before opening fire, but they didn't... they went in, guns blazing.

Shortly after Bush was elected, the Onion published a "humorous" article about the sweeping changes Bush was going to bring for the U.S., entitled "Bush: 'Our Long National Nightmare of Peace and Prosperity is Finally Over.'" Well, they recently updated the article by adding relevant links to certain phrases in the original text... makes it less funny, but more striking. It is disturnbing to consider how much of it's over-the-top mockery has come true.

[tw]

Originally Posted by lookout123

it is standard procedure to scatter any crowds away from damaged military equipment using whatever means necessary. the equipment has to be destroyed so that no hardware falls into unfriendly hands. the moral of the story is stay the hell away from US military equipment.

Well written spin. Standard procedure is to destroy or remove equipment before abandoning it. But when soldiers cannot stay to destroy equipment, only then is airpower used. Therein lies the problem. Even the streets of Baghdad are so unsafe. Soldiers could not stay to remove or destroy the Bradley. If George Jr told us the truth, then the Army had plenty of time to wait for a wrecker; to tow that Bradley out. But even in Baghdad, the streets are so unsafe that air power was required.

Standard procedure to spin facts when the truth is painful. lookout123 has demonstrated how to spin something into "It was their fault for being there". Reality: all of Iraq is slowly becoming unsafe for Americans. We cannot even provide electricity. Thousands of reconstruction projects - something over 90% - have been abandoned due to safety problems. This Bradely vehicle only demonstrates that even the Army could not even stick around to destroy or remove their equipment. It is not standard procedure to attack damaged equipment with helicopters. Is it also standard procedure to blame the victims for their own death? lookout123 did just that.

[warch]

here is the thing - we weren't there.

here's the other thing- We are responsible for their actions. We fund it, we select leadership who design policies, give orders and we take responsibilty for their actions by holding them accountable. So its our duty to at least try to understand what is going on and participate by helping make the best decisions and correcting misdirection. At least try to be aware of all who are dying on your dime. This is urban guerilla warfare. This is the messy situation everyone was worried about when Baghdad was invaded. We arent facing a uniformed opposing army. And it certainly favors the insurgents.

I happened to read this today, From the Washington Post: A returning Marine corps Lt General Conway blasted the orders he was given by Sanchez and the Adminstration to pull Marines and send in the make-shift "Fallujah Brigade" when things got tense back in April. It served to create a robust no-go zone, aided by a lot of useful US gear.

Eventually, the 800 AK-47 assault rifles, 27 pickup trucks and 50 radios the Marines gave the brigade wound up in the hands of the insurgents, according to Marine officers. Marines manning a checkpoint on the city's eastern fringe were shot at by gunmen wearing Fallujah Brigade uniforms.

[Clodfobble]

The whole point of the thread is that this time, it was caught on film. Any viewer can see that the people milling about had NO visible weapons.

HP, where did you see a copy of the video? I couldn't find any links in any of the articles.

[hot_pastrami]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

HP, where did you see a copy of the video? I couldn't find any links in any of the articles.

There are a couple of crappy Real Video versions of it out there... I can't watch them on my work computer here, so I don't know exactly how crappy they are.

BBC Real Video
CBS News Real Video

There are probably better versions of it out there if you look hard enough.

[lookout123]

HP - that video reiterates what i was saying. we don't know all that happened there. the reporter states that there had been heavy fighting all day. that street was involved in the fighting. a bradley was knocked out. iraqi's were celebrating at the location of the disabled bradley. we don't know what happened in the 60 seconds, 5 minutes, or 10 minutes before that short segment of video.

if the people that were milling around the were part of the forces that disabled the bradley, it wouldn't make sense to try to scatter them before launching. we have no evidence to say they were or were not a part of the force that disabled the bradley. in the end, it still stands to reason, it doesn't pay to hang out in a street where a battle just rolled through checking out disabled american equipment.

[hot_pastrami]

Originally Posted by lookout123

we don't know what happened in the 60 seconds, 5 minutes, or 10 minutes before that short segment of video.

Neither did the helicopter pilots, who had just barely arrived. All they knew is that about three hours previous, one of their vehicles was disabled there. When the helicopters arrived, there was a street filled with people, some of them looking at the vehicle, some of them climbing on the vehicle, some of them just walking down the street; on their way to work, or home, or to the store. And what do the pilots do? They lob high explosives into the crowd.

We claim to be there to liberate the Iraqi people, and instead our forces needlessly and intentionally put their lives in danger every day. Our military's disregard for innocent lives in this instance is nauseating.

Originally Posted by lookout123

if the people that were milling around the were part of the forces that disabled the bradley, it wouldn't make sense to try to scatter them before launching. we have no evidence to say they were or were not a part of the force that disabled the bradley.

That's a great, big "if." Can murder be justified with something as limp as "we didn't know or sure that they weren't insurgents"? This attack took place three hours after the original exchange, and it stands to reason that the insurgents high-tailed it out of there once the Americans withdrew... that's how guerilla warfare works. No weapons were evident, and an RPG is pretty hard to conceal. So in all likelihood, while some of the people there may have hated America, it is unlikely that any of them were armed reistance fighters.

As I said before, I don't think the pilots were killing out of hatred, they just did something unspeakably stupid, and the military's casual disregard for the lives of Iraqi citizens means that no one will be held responsible. And that is fucked up.

[Happy Monkey]

Sad story.

[jaguar]

There was a detailed writeup and pictures in the Guardian yesterday of this incident which backs this up entirely, when he arrived there were wounded and a burning bradley, soon after the choppers arrived and opened fire on the crowd repeatedly despite the lack of any arms or return fire and continued to do so except when ambulances were collecting the dead and dieing. The US is losing in Iraq, fast. If they think they can bomb slums into submission with airpower they're kidding themselves.

There was a snippet from a father at a funeral from his son I saw the other day, translated as "we want to support the US but how can when they they kill our families and destroy our homes". How can they? The country is a mess, no security, no safety, nothing is any better, every day people are dieing in increasing numbers. The US seems to be slowly pulling back, more and more 'no go zones' controlled by militas and criminals, more use of air power rather than on the ground work.