You Never Know Someone

Kitsune · 12-09-2004, 03:15 PM

My fall semester Physiology class started just as all of my previous classes had over the years: walk in, sign the roll, get a feel for what the prof is going to be like, decide if its worth keeping, etc. The entire class is usually pretty noisy, but once everyone settled into room 209's lecture about the nervous system, there was a distraction in the rear of the class. A student in the last row, tucked into the corner, kept talking and it irritated everyone to no end, yet none of us would do anything more than give this guy dissapproving looks. This happened during each lecture and finally the instructor pulled him aside after class around the 3rd or fourth day.

Sometime later, the guy stopped showing up and we all figured that he had dropped the class. All the better for us, as it creeped us out that he enjoyed talking to himself for a full hour. The weeks went by and it wasn't until the final that our professor had a talk with us about Justin, the noisy student. It seems The guy had some difficulties in life and took out his aggressions at a St. Petersburg Radio Shack. I never made the connection when his face made the evening news, it only struck me as familiar.

And to think I had considered yelling at this guy to "shut the hell up".

I wonder how many people we run into in our daily lives are the kind that go on to do something, uh, "interesting".

Troubleshooter · 12-09-2004, 03:34 PM

"We don't think this is who Justin was..."

I hate crap like that. He didn't just snap, he had a history of unprovoked violence and they're trying to blame it on the hard life he had that according to them wasn't a reason to act the way he did.

lookout123 · 12-09-2004, 03:39 PM

wow. i don't know of anyone from my past pulling something like that off, but my wife and i were just talking about those we knew going on to infamy.

i was doing a little research and came across the fact that my small hometown in illinois has 11 registered sex offenders in it - that is a town of only 5000. here's the kicker. i went to school with 4 of them. 3 of the 4 my first thought was "well, that doesn't really surprise me." but the 4th? that was a shocker.

lookout123 · 12-09-2004, 03:41 PM

[quote=Troubleshooter they're trying to blame it on the hard life he had that according to them wasn't a reason to act the way he did.[/QUOTE]

hard life or not, every action an individual makes requires a decision to do so.

glatt · 12-09-2004, 03:44 PM

This sucks all around. You can blame the family for not agressively pushing him into decent treatment, you can blame the numerous previous victims for not pressing charges, you can blame the cops for not putting the pattern together before it was too late, you can blame who ever it was who allegedly fucked this guy up in his childhood. None of that blame brings back the two dead people.

At least he turned the gun on himself. That sucks too, but he was the only one who had the guts to stop himself from doing it again.

A disaster like this is usually because of multiple failures.

Troubleshooter · 12-09-2004, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

hard life or not, every action an individual makes requires a decision to do so.

My point exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

At least he turned the gun on himself...but he was the only one who had the guts to stop himself from doing it again.

Bullshit, killing himself was either cowardice or psychosis. I'm betting cowardice.

Kitsune · 12-09-2004, 07:19 PM

Bullshit, killing himself was either cowardice or psychosis. I'm betting cowardice.

Just from reading what this guy did and that he didn't know his victims, I'd say he had some serious problems in his head. He assaulted one student on campus just after class for no reason, punching him in the jaw.

Troubleshooter · 12-09-2004, 08:04 PM

Without more information it's impossible to be sure, but my inner voice is telling me Anti-Social Disorder which is primarily behavioral.

404Error · 12-09-2004, 10:57 PM

Speaking of never really knowing someone, a few years into my correctional officer career I responded to an attempted suicide in one of the new admit cells and it turns out to be a guy I grew up with. We lived on the same street, went to the same schools and even hung out with the same friends. After we took him to the prison hospital for trying to hang himself, I talked with the guy for a while and found out that he had just been sentenced to 6 years for brutally beating his two small daughters, putting one in a coma and the other had brain damage.
After learning what he did I kind of wished we hadn't responded quite so quick. Luckily he got transfered to another prison not long after that and I didn't have to deal with him again.

wolf · 12-10-2004, 12:32 AM

I think that there is more to this story that we don't know than we know.

Many of the answers, however, died with Justin.

The fact that he was restless and talking to himself in the back of the classroom could be an outward sign that he was responding to internal stimuli.

A lot of crazy people fly under the radar because although they are crazy, they don't do dangerous stuff.

This guy, obviously, engaged in dangerous stuff, including the reported incident where he punched that dude without provocation.

Did the voices tell him to, or was there some other delusional reason he did that?

We won't ever know.

But that's probably an incident that should have been dealt with different.

Hindsight, is, of course always 20-20.

I have been involved in incidents where even when the family knows there is a clear problem, they refuse to do anything, thinking that their darling boy could never be dangerous, even if he's told them that they are not his family and have been replaced by demons.

Mom and dad are dead. The brother managed to escape the house with serious stab wounds and made it to the neighbors to call the police.

Last I heard, the killer was still satisfied that he had saved his parents by killing the demons.

There is a lot about this current case that the family will never tell. They probably more that they knew about his mental state, crazy things that he was saying or doing, that they won't now reveal ... even the dead need their reputations protected. There's a lot more than "he had a hard time with his parent's divorce." That much is at least obvious from the news report.

I'm not going to make judgements about craziness or cowardice beyond this, especially with respect to his committing suicide.

This is not a typical story, and will probably do more harm than good in general with respect to how seriously mentally ill people are viewed and treated in the community.

wolf · 12-10-2004, 12:43 AM

Wow. The Newspaper article contained a link to the 911 dispatch tape of the call made by one of the customers who managed to hide behind the counter and escape the killer's notice.

It's chilling, to say the least.

Clodfobble · 12-10-2004, 06:57 AM

I wish 911 calls weren't public record. A radio station here recently played the 911 call of that lady who cut off her baby's arms. *shudder*

Elspode · 12-10-2004, 08:14 AM

Speaking of crazy people committing mass murder, one of the victims of the Dimebag Darrell killing in Ohio had a local connection to our community. The band's security guy was a longtime Highland Games participant here in KC, and had been known to work Festival security all over by dint of his enormous stature and strength.

Many members of our local Pagan community knew the guy, who, along with Dimebag and two others, died at the hands of someone who is being characterized as "a disturbed fan" at the Ohio concert.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...0379684.htm?1c

Kitsune · 12-10-2004, 08:31 AM

Can anyone who kills and takes another human being's life, especially in this way, be sane? I kind of always thought that someone who commits murder isn't right in the head and that they lack value for human life. A connection isn't being made to what they are really doing and they don't comprehend the depth of their actions.

Or, knowing humanity in general, maybe its completely normal and we're all doing our best to supress it 24/7.

And, yeah, I'm sad to see Dimebag go. That sucks.

russotto · 12-10-2004, 08:48 AM

Police: "Did you see who did the shooting, ma'am?"

Caller: "I don't give a shit! Get here quick."

Now there's a caller with her priorities straight!

<humor mode=graveyard>
Radio Shack probably violated their new policy about asking name and address on cash purchases, and that drove the already-tormented guy over the edge.
</humor>

12-09-2004, 03:15 PM	#1
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	You Never Know Someone My fall semester Physiology class started just as all of my previous classes had over the years: walk in, sign the roll, get a feel for what the prof is going to be like, decide if its worth keeping, etc. The entire class is usually pretty noisy, but once everyone settled into room 209's lecture about the nervous system, there was a distraction in the rear of the class. A student in the last row, tucked into the corner, kept talking and it irritated everyone to no end, yet none of us would do anything more than give this guy dissapproving looks. This happened during each lecture and finally the instructor pulled him aside after class around the 3rd or fourth day. Sometime later, the guy stopped showing up and we all figured that he had dropped the class. All the better for us, as it creeped us out that he enjoyed talking to himself for a full hour. The weeks went by and it wasn't until the final that our professor had a talk with us about Justin, the noisy student. It seems The guy had some difficulties in life and took out his aggressions at a St. Petersburg Radio Shack. I never made the connection when his face made the evening news, it only struck me as familiar. And to think I had considered yelling at this guy to "shut the hell up". I wonder how many people we run into in our daily lives are the kind that go on to do something, uh, "interesting".

12-09-2004, 03:34 PM	#2
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	"We don't think this is who Justin was..." I hate crap like that. He didn't just snap, he had a history of unprovoked violence and they're trying to blame it on the hard life he had that according to them wasn't a reason to act the way he did. __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

12-09-2004, 03:39 PM	#3
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	wow. i don't know of anyone from my past pulling something like that off, but my wife and i were just talking about those we knew going on to infamy. i was doing a little research and came across the fact that my small hometown in illinois has 11 registered sex offenders in it - that is a town of only 5000. here's the kicker. i went to school with 4 of them. 3 of the 4 my first thought was "well, that doesn't really surprise me." but the 4th? that was a shocker. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

12-09-2004, 03:41 PM	#4
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	[quote=Troubleshooter they're trying to blame it on the hard life he had that according to them wasn't a reason to act the way he did.[/QUOTE] hard life or not, every action an individual makes requires a decision to do so. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

12-09-2004, 08:04 PM	#8
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	Without more information it's impossible to be sure, but my inner voice is telling me Anti-Social Disorder which is primarily behavioral. __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

12-09-2004, 03:44 PM	#5
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	This sucks all around. You can blame the family for not agressively pushing him into decent treatment, you can blame the numerous previous victims for not pressing charges, you can blame the cops for not putting the pattern together before it was too late, you can blame who ever it was who allegedly fucked this guy up in his childhood. None of that blame brings back the two dead people. At least he turned the gun on himself. That sucks too, but he was the only one who had the guts to stop himself from doing it again. A disaster like this is usually because of multiple failures.

12-09-2004, 07:19 PM	#7
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Bullshit, killing himself was either cowardice or psychosis. I'm betting cowardice. Just from reading what this guy did and that he didn't know his victims, I'd say he had some serious problems in his head. He assaulted one student on campus just after class for no reason, punching him in the jaw.

12-09-2004, 10:57 PM	#9
404Error Lecturer Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: CT USA Posts: 826	Speaking of never really knowing someone, a few years into my correctional officer career I responded to an attempted suicide in one of the new admit cells and it turns out to be a guy I grew up with. We lived on the same street, went to the same schools and even hung out with the same friends. After we took him to the prison hospital for trying to hang himself, I talked with the guy for a while and found out that he had just been sentenced to 6 years for brutally beating his two small daughters, putting one in a coma and the other had brain damage. After learning what he did I kind of wished we hadn't responded quite so quick. Luckily he got transfered to another prison not long after that and I didn't have to deal with him again. __________________ "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them." ~George Mason~

12-10-2004, 12:32 AM	#10
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I think that there is more to this story that we don't know than we know. Many of the answers, however, died with Justin. The fact that he was restless and talking to himself in the back of the classroom could be an outward sign that he was responding to internal stimuli. A lot of crazy people fly under the radar because although they are crazy, they don't do dangerous stuff. This guy, obviously, engaged in dangerous stuff, including the reported incident where he punched that dude without provocation. Did the voices tell him to, or was there some other delusional reason he did that? We won't ever know. But that's probably an incident that should have been dealt with different. Hindsight, is, of course always 20-20. I have been involved in incidents where even when the family knows there is a clear problem, they refuse to do anything, thinking that their darling boy could never be dangerous, even if he's told them that they are not his family and have been replaced by demons. Mom and dad are dead. The brother managed to escape the house with serious stab wounds and made it to the neighbors to call the police. Last I heard, the killer was still satisfied that he had saved his parents by killing the demons. There is a lot about this current case that the family will never tell. They probably more that they knew about his mental state, crazy things that he was saying or doing, that they won't now reveal ... even the dead need their reputations protected. There's a lot more than "he had a hard time with his parent's divorce." That much is at least obvious from the news report. I'm not going to make judgements about craziness or cowardice beyond this, especially with respect to his committing suicide. This is not a typical story, and will probably do more harm than good in general with respect to how seriously mentally ill people are viewed and treated in the community. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

12-10-2004, 12:43 AM	#11
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Wow. The Newspaper article contained a link to the 911 dispatch tape of the call made by one of the customers who managed to hide behind the counter and escape the killer's notice. It's chilling, to say the least. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

12-10-2004, 06:57 AM	#12
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	I wish 911 calls weren't public record. A radio station here recently played the 911 call of that lady who cut off her baby's arms. shudder

12-10-2004, 08:14 AM	#13
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Speaking of crazy people committing mass murder, one of the victims of the Dimebag Darrell killing in Ohio had a local connection to our community. The band's security guy was a longtime Highland Games participant here in KC, and had been known to work Festival security all over by dint of his enormous stature and strength. Many members of our local Pagan community knew the guy, who, along with Dimebag and two others, died at the hands of someone who is being characterized as "a disturbed fan" at the Ohio concert. http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...0379684.htm?1c __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

12-10-2004, 08:31 AM	#14
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Can anyone who kills and takes another human being's life, especially in this way, be sane? I kind of always thought that someone who commits murder isn't right in the head and that they lack value for human life. A connection isn't being made to what they are really doing and they don't comprehend the depth of their actions. Or, knowing humanity in general, maybe its completely normal and we're all doing our best to supress it 24/7. And, yeah, I'm sad to see Dimebag go. That sucks.

12-10-2004, 08:48 AM	#15
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	Police: "Did you see who did the shooting, ma'am?" Caller: "I don't give a shit! Get here quick." Now there's a caller with her priorities straight! <humor mode=graveyard> Radio Shack probably violated their new policy about asking name and address on cash purchases, and that drove the already-tormented guy over the edge. </humor>

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