How stupid are they?

richlevy · 04-12-2005, 08:28 PM

Ok, it happened again - legislators passed a law without fully reading it. As a result, West Virginia is one of the first states in the country with English as an official language.

I don't know what side anyone is on with this issue, but I think we can all agree that sneaking provisions into bills is bad policy.

This is the first time at the state level, but I know of two times in the past two years that Congress has had something like this happen.

What annoys me is that the perpetrator here was a Democrat. You can bet I'm going to be sending out an e-mail on this.

BigV · 04-12-2005, 08:38 PM

better send it in english...

Troubleshooter · 04-12-2005, 09:02 PM

I'm mixed on the whole English as an official language. There's no way to be sure of the ramifications until we figure out what the specifics of english being the official language are according to this law.

As to the stupidity of legislators, this situation is merely further reinforcement of my standing opinion, which is that they are a bunch of amoral, venal, short-sighted popularity whores.

wolf · 04-13-2005, 12:41 AM

Oddly, that is one of the few riders I could stand behind. For the most part I think adding riders, particularly unrelated ones, to bills is an inappropriate way to pass a law. Even if it's one that I might ordinarily support.

Of course, we are dealing with West Virginia here, so I can better understand the need to legislate English as the official languge.

glatt · 04-13-2005, 07:57 AM

I thought France was the only place that tried to protect its language with legislation.

You can pass all the laws you like, but they will have no impact on what your citizens choose to speak.

Still, it makes sense to have a common language in a country, and since I speak English, I'd like the common language to be English.

wolf · 04-13-2005, 09:54 AM

It ultimately has more to do with what language public documents are produced in.

OnyxCougar · 04-13-2005, 10:03 AM

I dont approve of the way it was done, but I support the legislation.

Quote:

Andrew Schneider, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of West Virginia, said English-only laws are based on the false premise that immigrants will not learn English without government coercion.

It makes no difference why they learn it, as long as they learn it. Why should the taxpayers have to pay for additional forms in other languages, translators, more money for bilingual reps, etc?

Quote:

"And English-only laws do nothing constructive to increase English proficiency. They simply discriminate and punish those who have not yet learned English," Schneider said.

oooh darn. Just like when you go to another country and all their official documents are in their languages. I'm tired of catering to people who can't be assed to learn the native tongue.

mrnoodle · 04-13-2005, 12:12 PM

Likewise.

For a country that's supposedly so mean and aggro, we're complete pussies about standing up for some things.

richlevy · 04-13-2005, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

oooh darn. Just like when you go to another country and all their official documents are in their languages. I'm tired of catering to people who can't be assed to learn the native tongue.

Uh, you did mean "asked", didn't you?

I really am not taking a position on the specific topic, just the way that the law was sneaked onto the books.

lookout123 · 04-13-2005, 06:34 PM

crappy way to pass a law. i haven't read the specifics on this law, but i generally support english-only legislation.

in arizona, the number of fluff gov't jobs that are created, because "we need someone who speaks spanish" so the people asking for services can understand... let's just say it pisses me off.

OnyxCougar · 04-14-2005, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richlevy

Uh, you did mean "asked", didn't you?

I really am not taking a position on the specific topic, just the way that the law was sneaked onto the books.

No, I mean "assed". Like, "don't give a rat's ass", or "couldn't give a shit less" or even maybe "an asshole for wanting to immigrate to a country in which they can't speak the freaking language"

Guyute · 04-18-2005, 08:04 PM

Glatt: I live in Canada, the country up North that allowed Quebec to pass a law banning English from most parts of public life, to the point of suing companies that answer phones in English. Despite the fact that Quebec is about 70% French-speaking (it was a lot lower before the law was passed and 350 000 people left the province for Toronto) overall French-speaking Canadians are less than 30% of the national composition but our government still allowed the law to go unchallenged. Thus, you cannot write a sign for your business and put it out front unless the English copy is at least 50% smaller than the French, and the Language Police would be ecstatic if the English was missing altogether. And no, I am not joking, there is actually a Language Police who go around investigating the use of English.

Our gutless lawmakers have been kowtowing to this nonsense for 30 years and will continue until a Prime Minister is voted in that is not from Quebec. Our government and military are full of this bias, as well, causing thousands of English-speaking people slightly proficient in French to be passed over for French-speakers who are slightly proficient in English...kinda bass-akwards, dont you think? You guys may hate the law now, but until the majority of people in the state speak Punjab or Mandarin, you are better off guaranteeing the majority rights to adequate access.

xoxoxoBruce · 04-18-2005, 08:37 PM

Guyute, I experienced what you're talking about many times. It's rediculous beyond belief, especially as you travel west or the maritimes.

04-12-2005, 08:28 PM	#1
richlevy King Of Wishful Thinking Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Philadelphia Suburbs Posts: 6,669	How stupid are they? Ok, it happened again - legislators passed a law without fully reading it. As a result, West Virginia is one of the first states in the country with English as an official language. I don't know what side anyone is on with this issue, but I think we can all agree that sneaking provisions into bills is bad policy. This is the first time at the state level, but I know of two times in the past two years that Congress has had something like this happen. What annoys me is that the perpetrator here was a Democrat. You can bet I'm going to be sending out an e-mail on this. __________________ Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE! I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama

04-12-2005, 08:38 PM	#2
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	better send it in english... __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

04-12-2005, 09:02 PM	#3
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	I'm mixed on the whole English as an official language. There's no way to be sure of the ramifications until we figure out what the specifics of english being the official language are according to this law. As to the stupidity of legislators, this situation is merely further reinforcement of my standing opinion, which is that they are a bunch of amoral, venal, short-sighted popularity whores. __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

04-13-2005, 12:41 AM	#4
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Oddly, that is one of the few riders I could stand behind. For the most part I think adding riders, particularly unrelated ones, to bills is an inappropriate way to pass a law. Even if it's one that I might ordinarily support. Of course, we are dealing with West Virginia here, so I can better understand the need to legislate English as the official languge. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

04-13-2005, 09:54 AM	#6
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	It ultimately has more to do with what language public documents are produced in. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

04-13-2005, 07:57 AM	#5
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I thought France was the only place that tried to protect its language with legislation. You can pass all the laws you like, but they will have no impact on what your citizens choose to speak. Still, it makes sense to have a common language in a country, and since I speak English, I'd like the common language to be English.

04-13-2005, 12:12 PM	#8
mrnoodle bent Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: under the weather Posts: 2,656	Likewise. For a country that's supposedly so mean and aggro, we're complete pussies about standing up for some things. __________________ Sìn a nall na cuaranan sin. -- Cha mhór is fheairrde thu iad, tha iad coltach ri cat air a dhathadh

04-13-2005, 06:34 PM	#10
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	crappy way to pass a law. i haven't read the specifics on this law, but i generally support english-only legislation. in arizona, the number of fluff gov't jobs that are created, because "we need someone who speaks spanish" so the people asking for services can understand... let's just say it pisses me off. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

04-18-2005, 08:04 PM	#12
Guyute Gamehenge Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Halifax, NS Posts: 168	Glatt: I live in Canada, the country up North that allowed Quebec to pass a law banning English from most parts of public life, to the point of suing companies that answer phones in English. Despite the fact that Quebec is about 70% French-speaking (it was a lot lower before the law was passed and 350 000 people left the province for Toronto) overall French-speaking Canadians are less than 30% of the national composition but our government still allowed the law to go unchallenged. Thus, you cannot write a sign for your business and put it out front unless the English copy is at least 50% smaller than the French, and the Language Police would be ecstatic if the English was missing altogether. And no, I am not joking, there is actually a Language Police who go around investigating the use of English. Our gutless lawmakers have been kowtowing to this nonsense for 30 years and will continue until a Prime Minister is voted in that is not from Quebec. Our government and military are full of this bias, as well, causing thousands of English-speaking people slightly proficient in French to be passed over for French-speakers who are slightly proficient in English...kinda bass-akwards, dont you think? You guys may hate the law now, but until the majority of people in the state speak Punjab or Mandarin, you are better off guaranteeing the majority rights to adequate access. __________________ It's Really Plain and Easy To See, The Family grows like fungus on a tree.

04-18-2005, 08:37 PM	#13
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Guyute, I experienced what you're talking about many times. It's rediculous beyond belief, especially as you travel west or the maritimes. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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