I got those Labour Party Blues oh yah

DanaC · 09-30-2005, 08:40 AM

Don't know if the Labour Party conference over here in Blighty got a mention over the pond, so this is more for the British Cellarites

Did ya see the speedy way conference security dealt with that awful trouble maker? Didn't it just make you feel proud that we have such a reasonable response to dissent in the UK? Damn terrorists

Sundae · 09-30-2005, 09:33 AM

Very irresponsible of me, but my first reaction was to be highly amused by the whole thing. We had a conference attended by GPs and pharmacists the same evening and I longed for someone to come and bundle the dissenters out of the room.

More seriously - I don't think heckling is a valid form of political debate in that environment. It might work at Speakers' Corner, but Jack Straw was hardly going to stop and put Walter Wolfgang's mind at rest. If he wanted to make his views known he should have found his own platform - the delegates were there to listen to Jack Straw.

I'm confused that his pass was confiscated under the Terrorism Act to prevent him from re-entering the next day. Is Terrorism now classified as creating a disturbance (with a bomb being the most extreme form of disturbance in that it rearranges the seating plan and the delegates' bodies)? Or is Terrorism defined as something that interrupts political discussion? In which case I could be arrested for channel hopping during Party Political Broadcasts.

DanaC · 09-30-2005, 10:48 AM

heh Just in case anyone was under any illusions about the Terrorism act not being ripe for misuse

BigV · 09-30-2005, 11:30 AM

Please excuse my considerable ignorance on the particulars, but I am interested in hearing more. Some questions.

1 -- Heckling. It heckling really a valid form of political debate, anywhere? Except the cellar and FOX news, of course, where it ranks quite high. I have heard of it and seen small short clips of it on televison, but I wonder if I was seeing it because it made "good entertaining television", as opposed to news.

2 -- Are you saying that this heckler was removed and his pass (like a press pass?) was confiscated, and that this episode was claimed to be a terroristic act of some kind?

3 -- Not really a question, but a statement of sympathy. We in the US have the PATRIOT Act (which is an acronym for something, something orwellianly opposite of the dictionary definition of patriot, I'm sure), that is used improperly. Many things are done in the name of the GWOT that are anathema to our political culture. The elimination of checks and balances, the suspension of habeus corpus, the wholesale suspension of many civil liberties, there are others here who can more precisely and articulately describe the abuses than I can. I only want to say that it's happening here, and it's wrong, WRONG. I sympathize with you.

jaguar · 09-30-2005, 12:11 PM

twas an utterly perfect vignette of New Labour, autocratic, undemocratic, paranoid of criticism, more worried about appearance than substance and totally hypocritical and all topped off perfectly by Blair's always-fresh 'well I wasn't there at the time' approach to anything going wrong. All in all it neatly summed up everything that's wrong with this government better than any opposition figure. That, and maybe, just maybe we get to see DeLay and fellow shitballs in orange jumpsuits, it hasn't been such a bad week after all.

BigV - he was barred from re-entering the conference under the prevention of terrorism act. Apparently heckling someone as boring as Straw is now terrorism. There are 2 rational responses to listening to Straw, sudden-onset narcolepsy or rapidly increasing indignation.

Sundae · 09-30-2005, 12:16 PM

I have mixed views on what happened. I hope I'll be able to express them reasonably succinctly.

The facts:
82 year old Walter Wolfgang was physically removed from the Labour Party Conference this week. He shouted "Ridiculous!" while Jack Straw was speaking on Iraq. His pass was confiscated and he was refused entry to the Conference the next day under the Terrorism Act. Tony Blair has since apologised & Mr Wolfgang was given his pass back.

Opinion:
There is a history of heckling at Labour Party Conferences, and certainly in the House of Commons during Prime Minister's Question Time. So general opinion seems to be that the Labour Party are trying to ban free speech, and that the Govt is unable to handle dissent, Cabinet Ministers are not capable of dealing with hecklers etc etc etc

Personally I don't think shouting "Ridiculous" is political debate, anywhere. Heckling is usually just an attempt to steal someone else's limelight. Of course there is an issue with his age and the feeling that the security were a little too threatening. I agree.

I'm hazy on why the Terrorism Act was invoked. Perhaps they took the pass first and had to find a legal reason for it afterwards? I certainly haven't seen any claim that Walter was engaged in terrorism. But of course it is frightening to realise how easily the law can be invoked.

Trilby · 09-30-2005, 02:01 PM

FIRST-OMG--Jag-where you been?, and #b) I'm a Yank and I just wanted to join the Brit party here! Carry on!
(*slinking* Is it Ok if I join you and have NO idea what you're about? 'Course, you can point out that it's never stopped me before, but...it IS your turf, and I DO want to be correct! I like Brits!)

PS--Jag, your last post reads suspiciously like Helen Fielding.

Elspode · 09-30-2005, 02:18 PM

Hey...if they didn't throw him down on the ground and shoot him several times in the head, I think he can count himself one of the lucky ones these days.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-30-2005, 04:38 PM

Dunno Spode. may be the other way 'round.

be-bop · 09-30-2005, 05:34 PM

I would have thrown the old duffer out as well,Christ he was wearing a purple suit for christ sakes where are the Fashon Police when you need them he was sooooooo 70's............

Joking apart it was a fucking disgrace the Guy's been in the Labour party since 1947,such is life in Tony's Britain the sooner the Bastard goes the better.
Sorry about the swearing but I was so angry about it....

09-30-2005, 08:40 AM	#1
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I got those Labour Party Blues oh yah Don't know if the Labour Party conference over here in Blighty got a mention over the pond, so this is more for the British Cellarites Did ya see the speedy way conference security dealt with that awful trouble maker? Didn't it just make you feel proud that we have such a reasonable response to dissent in the UK? Damn terrorists

09-30-2005, 11:30 AM	#4
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	Please excuse my considerable ignorance on the particulars, but I am interested in hearing more. Some questions. 1 -- Heckling. It heckling really a valid form of political debate, anywhere? Except the cellar and FOX news, of course, where it ranks quite high. I have heard of it and seen small short clips of it on televison, but I wonder if I was seeing it because it made "good entertaining television", as opposed to news. 2 -- Are you saying that this heckler was removed and his pass (like a press pass?) was confiscated, and that this episode was claimed to be a terroristic act of some kind? 3 -- Not really a question, but a statement of sympathy. We in the US have the PATRIOT Act (which is an acronym for something, something orwellianly opposite of the dictionary definition of patriot, I'm sure), that is used improperly. Many things are done in the name of the GWOT that are anathema to our political culture. The elimination of checks and balances, the suspension of habeus corpus, the wholesale suspension of many civil liberties, there are others here who can more precisely and articulately describe the abuses than I can. I only want to say that it's happening here, and it's wrong, WRONG. I sympathize with you. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

09-30-2005, 12:11 PM	#5
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	twas an utterly perfect vignette of New Labour, autocratic, undemocratic, paranoid of criticism, more worried about appearance than substance and totally hypocritical and all topped off perfectly by Blair's always-fresh 'well I wasn't there at the time' approach to anything going wrong. All in all it neatly summed up everything that's wrong with this government better than any opposition figure. That, and maybe, just maybe we get to see DeLay and fellow shitballs in orange jumpsuits, it hasn't been such a bad week after all. BigV - he was barred from re-entering the conference under the prevention of terrorism act. Apparently heckling someone as boring as Straw is now terrorism. There are 2 rational responses to listening to Straw, sudden-onset narcolepsy or rapidly increasing indignation. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

09-30-2005, 02:01 PM	#7
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	FIRST-OMG--Jag-where you been?, and #b) I'm a Yank and I just wanted to join the Brit party here! Carry on! (slinking Is it Ok if I join you and have NO idea what you're about? 'Course, you can point out that it's never stopped me before, but...it IS your turf, and I DO want to be correct! I like Brits!) PS--Jag, your last post reads suspiciously like Helen Fielding. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

09-30-2005, 02:18 PM	#8
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Hey...if they didn't throw him down on the ground and shoot him several times in the head, I think he can count himself one of the lucky ones these days. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

09-30-2005, 09:33 AM	#2
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	Very irresponsible of me, but my first reaction was to be highly amused by the whole thing. We had a conference attended by GPs and pharmacists the same evening and I longed for someone to come and bundle the dissenters out of the room. More seriously - I don't think heckling is a valid form of political debate in that environment. It might work at Speakers' Corner, but Jack Straw was hardly going to stop and put Walter Wolfgang's mind at rest. If he wanted to make his views known he should have found his own platform - the delegates were there to listen to Jack Straw. I'm confused that his pass was confiscated under the Terrorism Act to prevent him from re-entering the next day. Is Terrorism now classified as creating a disturbance (with a bomb being the most extreme form of disturbance in that it rearranges the seating plan and the delegates' bodies)? Or is Terrorism defined as something that interrupts political discussion? In which case I could be arrested for channel hopping during Party Political Broadcasts.

09-30-2005, 10:48 AM	#3
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	heh Just in case anyone was under any illusions about the Terrorism act not being ripe for misuse

09-30-2005, 12:16 PM	#6
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	I have mixed views on what happened. I hope I'll be able to express them reasonably succinctly. The facts: 82 year old Walter Wolfgang was physically removed from the Labour Party Conference this week. He shouted "Ridiculous!" while Jack Straw was speaking on Iraq. His pass was confiscated and he was refused entry to the Conference the next day under the Terrorism Act. Tony Blair has since apologised & Mr Wolfgang was given his pass back. Opinion: There is a history of heckling at Labour Party Conferences, and certainly in the House of Commons during Prime Minister's Question Time. So general opinion seems to be that the Labour Party are trying to ban free speech, and that the Govt is unable to handle dissent, Cabinet Ministers are not capable of dealing with hecklers etc etc etc Personally I don't think shouting "Ridiculous" is political debate, anywhere. Heckling is usually just an attempt to steal someone else's limelight. Of course there is an issue with his age and the feeling that the security were a little too threatening. I agree. I'm hazy on why the Terrorism Act was invoked. Perhaps they took the pass first and had to find a legal reason for it afterwards? I certainly haven't seen any claim that Walter was engaged in terrorism. But of course it is frightening to realise how easily the law can be invoked.

09-30-2005, 04:38 PM	#9
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Dunno Spode. may be the other way 'round. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-30-2005, 05:34 PM	#10
be-bop Operations Operative Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: scotland/uk Posts: 664	I would have thrown the old duffer out as well,Christ he was wearing a purple suit for christ sakes where are the Fashon Police when you need them he was sooooooo 70's............ Joking apart it was a fucking disgrace the Guy's been in the Labour party since 1947,such is life in Tony's Britain the sooner the Bastard goes the better. Sorry about the swearing but I was so angry about it....

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