Drug Wars tooooo close to home!

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

But yet it does not make them "Citizens" now does it? Nor does our Constitution provide for such.

You keep raising a point that I never made.

I never said anything about making them citizens or suggested that the Constitution provides the same rights as citizens.

I guess you are just unwilling to accept the basic Constitutional rights of "the people" as opposed to the specified rights of citizens.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

You keep raising a point that I never made. I never said anything about making them citizens.

I guess you are just unwilling to accept the basic Constitutional rights of "the people" as opposed to the specified rights of citizens.

And you raised the parallel between Enemy Combatants in Gitmo and illegal aliens. Apples and Oranges. There is no comparison.

Constitutional scholars have not supported your notions.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Constitutional scholars have not supported your notions.

In fact, 200 years of precedent support my notions regarding the application of the Bill of Rights (and subsequent amendments, unless otherwise specified) to non-citizens.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

I never said anything about making them citizens or suggested that the Constitution provides the same rights as citizens.

I did. Our Constitution only provides Rights to Citizens.

I guess you are just unwilling to accept the basic Constitutional rights of "the people" as opposed to the specified rights of citizens.

"The People" has been established to pertain to "Citizens"...

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

In fact, 200 years of precedent support my notions regarding the application of the Bill of Rights (and subsequent amendments, unless otherwise specified) to non-citizens.

Ok, show me where in the words of the Constitution does it state that it pertains to let's say, Citizens of Turkey.

Go!

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I did. Our Constitution only provides Rights to Citizens.

"The People" has been established to pertain to "Citizens"...

As I cited earlier, The Supreme Court, starting with Vick Wo v Hopkins says otherwise.

Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356 (1886), was the first case where the United States Supreme Court ruled that a law that is race-neutral on its face, but is administered in a prejudicial manner, is an infringement of the Equal Protection Clause in the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

And there have been numerous affirmations since then.

Please cite ONE case where the Supreme Court said that the term "the people" as expressed in the Constitution only applies to citizens.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

As I cited earlier, The Supreme Court, starting with Vick Wo v Hopkins says otherwise.

Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356 (1886), was the first case where the United States Supreme Court ruled that a law that is race-neutral on its face, but is administered in a prejudicial manner, is an infringement of the Equal Protection Clause in the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

And there have been numerous affirmations since then.

None of those state that the US Constitution applies to non-citizens. Sorry.

[Aliantha]

So if I come to the US and allegedly commit a crime, do I not have the right to innocence until proven guilt?

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

None of those state that the US Constitution applies to non-citizens. Sorry.

It sure does.

Read the words directly from the Court's decision:

“The rights of the petitioners, as affected by the proceedings of which they complain, are not less because they are aliens and subjects of the emperor of China… . The fourteenth amendment to the constitution is not confined to the protection of citizens. It says: ‘Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.’ These provisions are universal in their application, to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality; and the equal protection of the laws is a pledge of the protection of equal laws… . The questions we have to consider and decide in these cases, therefore, are to be treated as involving the rights of every citizen of the United States equally with those of the strangers and aliens who now invoke the jurisdiction of the court.”

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

So if I come to the US and allegedly commit a crime, do I not have the right to innocence until proven guilt?

Sure you do, and you have the Right to go to jail, and then be deported. Limited Rights.

Originally Posted by Aliantha

So if I come to the US and allegedly commit a crime, do I not have the right to innocence until proven guilt?

You have a right to free speech, a right to be protected from search and seizure, the right to habeus corpus, the right to equal protection under the law, etc.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Sure you do, and you have the Right to go to jail, and then be deported. Limited Rights.

Well, provided I was proven guilty of course.

Originally Posted by Redux

You have a right to free speech, a right to be protected from search and seizure, the right to habeus corpus, etc.

Yes but only if there's no evidence to suggest I've committed a crime, otherwise the police have the right to search as much as they like, just like a US citizen.

[lumberjim]

the sexual tension between merc and redux is alarming.

when they finally have sex, there will be earthquakes a plenty.

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Yes but only if there's no evidence to suggest I've committed a crime, otherwise the police have the right to search as much as they like, just like a US citizen.

The right to search and seizure is limited in the same manner for non-citizens and citizens.....probable cause.

[Aliantha]

Yep, that's pretty much what I said. They need evidence to suggest I've committed the crime in order to collect more evidence.