Drug Wars tooooo close to home!

[classicman]

I'm torn on discussing the MS-13, but a couple more of them were recently sentenced for murder. They are apparently well entrenched here in the US, heavily involved in the illegal drug trade and their numbers are growing quite rapidly IN THE US.
From the FBI statement ...

ALEXANDRIA, VA—MS-13 member Eris Ramon Arguera, 21, of Alexandria, Va., was sentenced today to 324 months in prison, followed by five years of supervised release, for his role in the murder of a pimp while robbing the pimp and a prostitute in Alexandria on July 29, 2009.

Arguera fled the area after the murder and was hiding in Texas until his arrest by law enforcement. A citizen of El Salvador, Arguera is in the United States illegally and will be turned over to immigration authorities following his release from prison for deportation proceedings.

This all happened in Alexandria Virginia - this isn't just a border state issue.

[jinx]

Clinton: It's all our fault Mexico is so fucked up.

The hell? Is she high???

a) Mexico has some of the strictest gun laws in the world - as a result, only the criminals are well armed. And at this point they are running the country.
b) If US drug addicts have a disease, and aren't responsible for the destruction of their own lives, how the crap can they be responsible for the destruction of another country?
c) Were chinese users responsible for all the opium the Brits shoved up their ass?

[classicman]

I think that is pretty much what this administration believes. The next thing is to send another 66 MILLION to them. Them being corrupt as hell. Perhaps we could use that money to help secure the borders and increase prevention. Nah - what we've been doing hasn't worked - she admitted that. So her plan is to do more of what hasn't worked at our expense. Great idea.

Originally Posted by jinx

Clinton: It's all our fault Mexico is so fucked up.

The hell? Is she high???

a) Mexico has some of the strictest gun laws in the world - as a result, only the criminals are well armed. And at this point they are running the country.
b) If US drug addicts have a disease, and aren't responsible for the destruction of their own lives, how the crap can they be responsible for the destruction of another country?
c) Were chinese users responsible for all the opium the Brits shoved up their ass?

I dont think its quite that simple, despite the lapdog's jumping in and nodding like a bobblehead doll.

Most would agree that the so-called war on drugs for the last 30 years has been a failure.

And the issue of well armed criminals and drug lords in Mexico is due in large part to the illicit export of weapons from the US, aided and abetted by corrupt border agents on both sides.

I give Bush credit for pushing through the drug interdiction Merida Initiative at the end of his term, despite some misgivings I have about the program.

He did so because, for the first time in years, Mexico has a president in Calderon who is not corrupt (or far less corrupt that his predecessors) and committed to taking on the drug lords. But he certainly cant do it alone and both Bush and Obama recognized that fact.

At the same time, we cant keep throwing money at it if Calderon is unwilling or unable to act more aggressively and it seems like he cant or wont because I suspect he fears for his own life.

I think Clinton's remarks were diplomaticspeak to give him a little cover and some level of assurances that we wont abandon him completely and will continue to fund the Merida Intiative

And if you look at policies and funding levels, we have committed more in the last few years to focus on preventing the worst of the criminal types (as opposed to the common workers) from crossing into the US and focus on catching, detaining and deporting the criminal types (as opposed to the common worker) as well as stopping or slowing the flow of weapons from the US to Mexico.

It is easy to criticize, particularly at a superficial level. It is harder to offer construction solutions.

As to the suggestion for more "money to help secure the borders and increase prevention" that is exactly what has occurred over the last two budget cycles.

[xoxoxoBruce]

And the issue of well armed criminals and drug lords in Mexico is due in large part to the illicit export of weapons from the US, aided and abetted by corrupt border agents on both sides.

I don't think so, most of the pictures of seized cartel caches are eastern European or Chinese weapons. They would be cheaper and larger caliber then US weapons, also. Most of the US weapons pictured are fancy (gold plated, engraved) hand guns, for the big shots (no pun).

Oh, and it believe it's Clinton she, not he.

[Griff]

You do understand that the gratuitous slap at classic will stop the very people you'd like to convince from reading the rest of your post which was actually quite good. Please take this comment in the spirit I intend. I want more lucid cogent commentary, which you can bring and less team play which is hard to avoid but quite destructive of our goals. Be bigger than the other team.


Illegal cross border traffic is the big thing I see which we can reduce to assist Mexico and ourselves. The three trafficked items are people, drugs, and guns. I think we have the political will to change the immigration policy. We need to make it easier to enter the country legally than illegally. That means more work visas for unskilled seasonal agriculture and improved enforcement of visa rules. We can decriminalize pot and start the discussion about how we move from a prison-based to a treatment-based model for less acceptable drugs. Guns are part of the tightened border issue as there is little that can be done without an amendment to the Constitution which there is no consensus for.

[jinx]

Guns are part of the tightened border issue as there is little that can be done without an amendment to the Constitution which there is no consensus for.

Our constitution, or theirs?

I have a hard time reconciling throwing a bunch more money at Mexico to do what we could just do ourselves. Why give them them helicopters when we could use them on our side of the border. Not that our government is a model of efficiency, but large percentages of money vanishes when it changes hands like this...
I completely agree with fortifying our border, working to make sure guns and money aren't going south, people and drugs coming north. I also agree with sweeping immigration reform - a combo of making it easier to enter legally, amnesty for illegals already here, stricter enforcement of visas (we will have to ask to see papers to do this) and tougher penalties for new illegals. All at the same time.

Why did the drug trafficking from Columbia shift to Mexico, away from the Caribbean?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I don't think so, most of the pictures of seized cartel caches are eastern European or Chinese weapons. They would be cheaper and larger caliber then US weapons, also. Most of the US weapons pictured are fancy (gold plated, engraved) hand guns, for the big shots (no pun).

Oh, and it believe it's Clinton she, not he.

A significant number of the weapons are exported from the US:

Reportedly, 90% of confiscated guns that could be traced, originated in the United States.The ATF has reportedly traced 22,848 guns smuggled into Mexico from the United States since 2005, and it showed that between 2005 and 2008, Texas, Arizona and California are the three most prolific source states, respectively, for firearms illegally trafficked to Mexico. About 55% of guns smuggled from the U.S. are assault rifles. Mexican officials only submitted 32% of the guns they seized to the ATF for tracing, and less than half of those weapons had serial numbers. Overall, 83% of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced.

Mexican cartels often pay U.S. citizens to purchase assault rifles or other guns at gun shops or gun shows, then sell them to a cartel representative. This exchange is known as a straw purchase. Because there is no computerized national gun registry, tracking guns relies on a paper trail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War

Granted this only represents those weapons seized by the Mexicans and submitted to ATF...but it is not a small number.

Oh, and the "he" to whom I referrred was Bush, who created the Merida Initiative in 2007-08. Obama/Clinton have continued with the program, with minor tweaks.

I dont want to throw good money after, and as I said, I have concerns about the Initiative, particularly as it funded right wing thugs like President Uribe (recently left office) and his para-military in Colombia.....but it is certainly in our interest to work with the Mexicans (and others) to take on the drug cartels.

IMO, Calderon is sincere in his interests in doing so, but too weak to make it happen, particularly w/o our assistance. The next president of Mexico could very go back to the old ways of corruption and turning their eyes from the problem.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by jinx

Our constitution, or theirs?

Ours. There is no broad-based support for gun control, rural America can't afford it. Belief that there is broad-based support is the far left living in a cocoon much as the far right does on so many issues. I don't know anything about Mexican gun control. I figure as a left-libertarian living among right-wingers and working among left-wingers, I see a broader picture than most but still have blinders... that the cellar occasionally removes.

[lookout123]

Do you believe further limiting access to firearms to US citizens is an effective way stop cross border crime? I'm not sure I follow.

[Griff]

No. What we need are positive pro-freedom ways of limiting cross-border black market trafficking. To me that means de-criminalizing drugs and increasing and simplifying legal immigration which can be done on this side of the border. That would reduce violence here and in Mexico. The Mexican gun violence problem is a result of the drug and human trafficking.

[lookout123]

I absolutely agree with you. Those are all things I've suggested here before, of course they are labelled as evil conservative ideas designed to make the rich white guy richer when I post them.

Originally Posted by lookout123

I absolutely agree with you. Those are all things I've suggested here before, of course they are labeled as evil conservative ideas designed to make the rich white guy richer when I post them.

I agree as well.

And I dont see these as "evil conservative ideas."

I would only add that comprehensive immigration reforms should also include a path to citizenship (not amnesty) with penalties for most illegals already here. There is no other practical or achievable solution to that part of the immigration problem. It is the essential "third leg" of any reform stool, along of border security and simplified immigration.

Beyond that, while there is significant overlap of the illegal immigration issue and the illegal drug issue, and can and should be addressed together to some degree, they also require separate solutions. And, IMO, part of the solution to the drug problem rests not just with diminishing demand, but working towards eliminating the easy supply.

If not something comparable to the Merida Initiative, then what?

[xoxoxoBruce]

About 55% of guns smuggled from the U.S. are assault rifles.

Since assault rifles aren't available to civilians in the US, without a $300 per year permit from the feds, for each rifle, any assault rifle smuggling is being done on a wholesale basis. The feds know what's being produced, and arms export is closely monitored, so are the feds allowing it? Or they are being shipped to an acceptable source, who's selling them to the Mexicans. That would make them even more expensive, and doesn't make sense, when Chinese/European assault rifles are cheaper and more powerful.

[lookout123]

I think non gun people classify any black gun as an assault rifle. The AR-15(or similar model) you can buy off the shelf is semi-auto (one shot per trigger pull) so no license is needed to own it. it's black and ugly but far from the assault rifle from the war movies.