Guns don't kill people ....

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

snip... we need more gun regulation while minimizing the ability of responsible gun owners to possess guns. snip

Was that a typo?

[piercehawkeye45]

Yes. Yes it was. Thank you.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I would have overlooked a normal typo but that one had a big impact on what you were trying to say.

[Stormieweather]

I think gun ownership should be more difficult to achieve. Not impossible, except for automatic/semi-automatic weapons, just more carefully controlled. I think a permit and complete background checks should be required of all permit holders. It should be revoked in the event of domestic violence, mental illness, or any felony crime. If accused of a crime, all guns should be confiscated, to be returned if found not guilty/charges dropped. It should be required that all weapons be secured and accessible only to the permit holder(s).

If you fuck up, you lose your guns.

We lose our jobs, cars, drivers licenses, children and spouses for fucking up, we should also lose our guns.

And mental illness should be an automatic block to owning a weapon. Sorry if that feels too harsh, but shit..you can't be a police officer or judge or teacher or daycare provider if you have a documented mental illness, and you should not be allowed contact with a gun either.

The permit should be required to be renewed periodically, and another full background check (including mental health records) should be done. A registry of all licensed gun owners and the weapons registered to them would be kept. Longer sentences for illegally possessing a weapon should occur.

I say this as a gun owner, and one whose (adult) son has a concealed permit and is an active enthusiast. I have nothing against guns, but they are too easy to get and their possession is too unregulated. We pay less attention to guns than we do to cars!!

f you are a responsible adult, you should have no problem obtaining a permit and retaining it any more than you would a driver's license.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

And mental illness should be an automatic block to owning a weapon. Sorry if that feels too harsh, but shit..you can't be a police officer or judge or teacher or daycare provider if you have a documented mental illness, and you should not be allowed contact with a gun either.

Gender Identity disorder is still technically recognized in the DSM. Should trans* people not be allowed to own guns?
So is ADHD, and depression, and generalized anxiety disorder. Should they not be allowed to own guns?
So is obsessive-compulsive disorder. Should they not be allowed to own guns?
So is bipolar disorder. Should they not be allowed to own guns?
So is borderline personality disorder. Should they not be allowed to own guns?
So is sadistic paranoid schizophrenia. Should they not be allowed to own guns?

"mental illness" is far too broad an umbrella, unfortunately. Obviously psychopaths, sadistic schizophrenics, etc shouldn't have guns. but where do you draw the line?

I'd be much more interested in screening for violent factors like history of verbal/emotional abuse (even if not physical), racism/hate, gang/criminal affiliation, history of alcohol abuse, etc.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I would have overlooked a normal typo but that one had a big impact on what you were trying to say.

Psshh....read what I mean...not what I type.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

Our Constitutional Rights are sacred. Think how many have fought and died for these rights. I'm willing to keep our right to bear arms, even if it did endanger my precious angel. We need to start putting our country and constitution first. To be a free country, you often have to pay a price

That, folks, is the difference between the shepherd and the sheep.

[Griff]

shutting up

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Griff

shutting up

Griff, you didn't need to edit your post. You're a citizen. Big Sarge is a citizen-soldier. Perhaps he's noticed some things that you missed. I'm sure he would have taken that into consideration. Thank you for your input, it was weighted accordingly even before it was withdrawn.

[Ibby]

the constitution has been wrong before, you know. thats why we've had to amend it 27 times.

Personally, living in gun-crazy Vermont, I can say that... this doesn't really happen up here. There are the horror stories of 14-year-olds using their own personal shotguns to blow away mommy's new boyfriend (well, actually, in the case I'm referring to, the mother was either bipolar or schizophrenic, and was off her meds, and therefore was beyond being able to consent, so it was rape, and I think the kid shouldn't've been charged for warning his mother's rapist to leave, and then firing in self-defense when the rapist attacked him for the gun...), and plenty of hunting accidents, but for the most part, there are very few murders here (11 last year), and guns aren't actually used in at least half of them. There's also very little armed robbery and such.
And yet I could buy a semi-auto AK47 or AR15 today. With no planning. The background check takes five minutes. If I have enough money in my bank account I could have a semi-auto rifle with a 100-round mag by tonight. (well, i dunno if they're open weekends, but you get my point). If I were some sick fuck who wanted to mow down a crowd, i'd absolutely have more bullets than targets anywhere I could GO in Vermont, basically. Maybe the mall has a hundred or so people at any given time but its a long, thin mall with lots of exits.

Clearly, gun control laws aren't the only factor in gun crime and mass killings. But they could make it more difficult. I think it'd be perfectly reasonable to make owning a gun more difficult, paperwork-ed, and bureaucratic than owning a car. licensing, screening, basic training and certification, periodic inspection? Sounds cool to me. Surely it's worth mildly inconveniencing legal owners of guns, to help ensure that at least the most obviously unfit are weeded out?

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Ibby

Gender Identity disorder is still technically recognized in the DSM. Should trans* people not be allowed to own guns?
So is ADHD, and depression, and generalized anxiety disorder. Should they not be allowed to own guns?
So is obsessive-compulsive disorder. Should they not be allowed to own guns?
So is bipolar disorder. Should they not be allowed to own guns?
So is borderline personality disorder. Should they not be allowed to own guns?
So is sadistic paranoid schizophrenia. Should they not be allowed to own guns?

"mental illness" is far too broad an umbrella, unfortunately. Obviously psychopaths, sadistic schizophrenics, etc shouldn't have guns. but where do you draw the line?

I'd be much more interested in screening for violent factors like history of verbal/emotional abuse (even if not physical), racism/hate, gang/criminal affiliation, history of alcohol abuse, etc.

Actually, the new DSM-V just came out a month ago, and one of the big changes is there isn't a "gender identity disorder" anymore, because they wanted to get away from the idea that it was a "disorder." Now it's "gender dysphoria." (I'm up to date on the changes, by the way, because there's also no such thing as Asperger's or PDD-NOS anymore, it's all just "autism spectrum disorder." )

But to be blunt, yes, I think everything you listed should be at least a temporary barrier to owning a gun. Even ADHD. Because all mental illnesses are subjective to a large degree--one doc says you have adult ADHD, another says you're bipolar... All of the above should warrant a second or even third evaluation, when it comes to the question of gun ownership.

[Stormieweather]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Actually, the new DSM-V just came out a month ago, and one of the big changes is there isn't a "gender identity disorder" anymore, because they wanted to get away from the idea that it was a "disorder." Now it's "gender dysphoria." (I'm up to date on the changes, by the way, because there's also no such thing as Asperger's or PDD-NOS anymore, it's all just "autism spectrum disorder." )

But to be blunt, yes, I think everything you listed should be at least a temporary barrier to owning a gun. Even ADHD. Because all mental illnesses are subjective to a large degree--one doc says you have adult ADHD, another says you're bipolar... All of the above should warrant a second or even third evaluation, when it comes to the question of gun ownership.

Yes.

[Rhianne]

I don't think that anyone who believes that their guns are more important to them than their children should be allowed to have a gun (or children).

[sexobon]

sheep-dip

[footfootfoot]

Oh, no worries about me. It's the deer I'm after.