Vaccination & epidemic - Page 22

jinx · 08-30-2009, 08:09 PM

Did you watch?

classicman · 08-30-2009, 09:04 PM

I got to see the last 5 minutes - Grrrrrr Pissed I missed it.

Clodfobble · 08-30-2009, 10:14 PM

That's okay, I'm pissed I didn't miss it. They spent 5 goddamn seconds on the fact that "ohAndHisParentsSayHe'sGettingBetter--let's talk about vaccines some more." I know for a fact they interviewed half a dozen families for this, but they decided that children recovering from a disease that there is supposedly no possible recovery from wasn't the story they wanted to tell.

Matt Lauer can eat a dick.

classicman · 08-31-2009, 09:24 AM

He probably did to get the job he has - I never liked him or Katie makemepuke

Clodfobble · 08-31-2009, 04:00 PM

To be fair, it was probably the most balanced presentation of Wakefield and his career history that I've ever seen in a major news outlet, and gave him the chance to answer all the various false charges that Brian Deer has pulled out of his ass over the years. But it was very much a personality/history piece, they didn't go into the actual validity of the vaccine studies at all--and really, no one expected them to. That's a career-ending position to take, and Matt Lauer just isn't going to do it even if he were personally convinced by the evidence. But they specifically promised they were going to cover the treatments themselves going on at Thoughtful House, which in my opinion they didn't honestly do.

Clodfobble · 08-31-2009, 05:35 PM

Case in point: today I just purchased one of Betty Crocker's brand new Gluten-Free baking mixes. On the side of the box it says:

Quote:

Why go gluten free? Not long ago, two of our co-workers found themselves in the gluten free world. Linc was diagnosed with Celiac disease, and Colleen's family switched to the diet for her son's well-being.

Their experiences opened our eyes to the challenges families face following the diet... etc.

Colleen's son is autistic, you can bet your ass on it. But their lawyers have made them too chickenshit to come out and say it. God forbid we tell anyone about this.

Undertoad · 09-01-2009, 12:17 PM

Is it true that Wakefield had a patent application for a single dose measles vaccine filed before he published his Lancet paper?

Clodfobble · 09-01-2009, 01:06 PM

They addressed that accusation in the NBC piece: his single-dose measles shot was not a preventative vaccine, but rather a treatment for those who already had a chronic measles infection in their gut; i.e. the autistic kids he was working with. It would have in no way competed with the MMR or benefited from its discontinuation--in fact, it would have been a far more successful product if more kids continued to get vaccinated with the MMR and developed the condition his shot was intended to treat.

Clodfobble · 09-01-2009, 01:19 PM

Thoughtful House's response to the NBC piece:

Quote:

We are aware of the time limitations in a news broadcast of this nature; inevitably, crucial questions go unanswered and important facts are omitted. Quick answers and segues leave questions open, and can even lead to misunderstanding.

Among the most crucial incorrect statements were that “(experts) have taken this study and blown it to bits…that despite studies showing otherwise…Dr. Wakefield insists autism and bowel disease are linked…” This is in fact not the case, and NBC was given the correct information in great detail. Five separate studies in five countries have confirmed the presence of a novel bowel disease in children with autism. Additional publications confirming these findings are in process. This hypothesis was the crux of the 1998 Lancet paper, as well as several subsequent publications by Dr. Wakefield.

And from Wakefield himself:

Quote:

The shortcomings and the flaws of the studies quoted by Dr. Offit, claiming to disprove an association between vaccines and autism, were not discussed in the program. In my interview with Mr. Lauer I took as an example a paper from Dr. DeStefano from the CDC claiming to exonerate MMR that actually showed that a
younger age of vaccination with MMR is associated with a greater risk of autism. This study confirms the association and has been falsely portrayed as vindicating the vaccine. This should have been included in order to provide balance to the program.

Dr. Offit cited a large population study of autism and MMR from Denmark in support of his claim to ‘certainty that there is no link.’ This study was so flawed that it was rejected from consideration by the gold standard scientific review by the highly influential Cochrane Collaboration.

...

Reference was made to an autistic child in the vaccine court whose claim for MMR damage was overturned by the judge. No reference was made to the successful vaccine court case on behalf of the child Bailey Banks, coming just one week after the unsuccessful claim described by Mr. Lauer, in which the judge ruled that MMR vaccine can cause autism. Therefore, in the view of vaccine court, it is not a question of whether or not MMR can cause autism, but rather
how many children are affected.

...

It was not disclosed that I have repeatedly invited Dr. Offit to take part in public debate on the safety of MMR vaccine and the false and misleading claims that he has made in the media and his book. He has refused to accept this invitation and has continued to hide from an open and honest debate.

Undertoad · 09-01-2009, 01:25 PM

All vaccines are preventative, and he described it as a "safer vaccine" in his patent application?

jinx · 09-01-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

All vaccines are preventative, and he described it as a "safer vaccine" in his patent application?

No they're not - there are therapeutic vaccines as well as prophylactic. Look it up.

Undertoad · 09-01-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

This study was so flawed that it was rejected from consideration by the gold standard scientific review by the highly influential Cochrane Collaboration.

Does this discredit the study? Where can we read the reasons for rejection?

Undertoad · 09-01-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

No reference was made to the successful vaccine court case on behalf of the child Bailey Banks

Remember how the case was not decided on the basis of science? I think we looked at that in the Other Thread.

jinx · 09-01-2009, 07:37 PM

No that was the Hannah Poling case.

edit:... that we discussed in the other thread.

Biological plausibility = biology = science

Undertoad · 09-01-2009, 11:04 PM

Huh, true, and interesting.

Wakefield's vaccine was dual-purpose: "The present invention relates to a new vaccine for the elimination of MMR and measles virus and to a pharmaceutical or therapeutic composition for the treatment of IBD (Inflammatory Bowel Disease); particularly Crohn's Disease and Ulcerative Colitis and regressive behavioural disease (RBD)."

08-30-2009, 08:09 PM	#1
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	Did you watch? __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

08-30-2009, 09:04 PM	#2
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	I got to see the last 5 minutes - Grrrrrr Pissed I missed it. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

08-30-2009, 10:14 PM	#3
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	That's okay, I'm pissed I didn't miss it. They spent 5 goddamn seconds on the fact that "ohAndHisParentsSayHe'sGettingBetter--let's talk about vaccines some more." I know for a fact they interviewed half a dozen families for this, but they decided that children recovering from a disease that there is supposedly no possible recovery from wasn't the story they wanted to tell. Matt Lauer can eat a dick. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

08-31-2009, 09:24 AM	#4
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	He probably did to get the job he has - I never liked him or Katie makemepuke __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

08-31-2009, 04:00 PM	#5
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	To be fair, it was probably the most balanced presentation of Wakefield and his career history that I've ever seen in a major news outlet, and gave him the chance to answer all the various false charges that Brian Deer has pulled out of his ass over the years. But it was very much a personality/history piece, they didn't go into the actual validity of the vaccine studies at all--and really, no one expected them to. That's a career-ending position to take, and Matt Lauer just isn't going to do it even if he were personally convinced by the evidence. But they specifically promised they were going to cover the treatments themselves going on at Thoughtful House, which in my opinion they didn't honestly do. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

09-01-2009, 12:17 PM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Is it true that Wakefield had a patent application for a single dose measles vaccine filed before he published his Lancet paper?

09-01-2009, 01:06 PM	#8
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	They addressed that accusation in the NBC piece: his single-dose measles shot was not a preventative vaccine, but rather a treatment for those who already had a chronic measles infection in their gut; i.e. the autistic kids he was working with. It would have in no way competed with the MMR or benefited from its discontinuation--in fact, it would have been a far more successful product if more kids continued to get vaccinated with the MMR and developed the condition his shot was intended to treat. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

09-01-2009, 01:25 PM	#10
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	All vaccines are preventative, and he described it as a "safer vaccine" in his patent application?

09-01-2009, 07:37 PM	#14
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	No that was the Hannah Poling case. edit:... that we discussed in the other thread. Biological plausibility = biology = science __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good. Last edited by jinx; 09-01-2009 at 08:23 PM.

09-01-2009, 11:04 PM	#15
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Huh, true, and interesting. Wakefield's vaccine was dual-purpose: "The present invention relates to a new vaccine for the elimination of MMR and measles virus and to a pharmaceutical or therapeutic composition for the treatment of IBD (Inflammatory Bowel Disease); particularly Crohn's Disease and Ulcerative Colitis and regressive behavioural disease (RBD)."

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