Vaccination & epidemic

It all depends on what you want to see, and what elements you latch onto.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Tiki

It all depends on what you want to see, and what elements you latch onto.

latch onto this

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by Tiki

You didn't click on the links, did you?

Originally Posted by Tiki

I don't have anything further to add to this discussion because I can't intelligently discuss any topic with people who refuse to do any additional reading because they think they already know all the available material, have made up their minds, closed them, and thrown away the key.

"There is no need for me to click on the links or read the studies, or the withdrawals, because I already know everything".

I heartily recommend reading actual medical studies and not third-party interpretations of those studies wherever possible, because when you read the interpretations you're absorbing someone else's opinion, not forming your own.

Originally Posted by Tiki

With the withdrawal of 10 of the 13 original supporters from the original Lancet paper that kicked off the anti-vaccination craze (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9500320) and the revelation that Andrew Wakefield falsified his results linking vaccination to autism, it would seem as if the anti-vaccination lunatics (http://www.generationrescue.org/) would back off at least a little on their dangerous allegations that vaccines harm more than they save. Instead, it seems as if they've redoubled their efforts.

In discussing the vaccination issue with people who have chosen not to vaccinate their children, I find that a typical reaction to my pro-vaccination opinion is to assume that I simply haven't read enough. Naturally, given my specific interests in the fields of biochemistry and epidemiology, the opposite is true; if anything, I've read too much. I have watched my children, worried, after each vaccination, and breathed a sigh of relief when none of the many well-documented complications arose. None of those well-documented complications happen to be long-term mental deficiency or autism, but that's not stopping the anti-vaccination ignorant from promoting their potentially disastrous propaganda, nor is it stopping the resurgence of formerly eradicated and dangerous diseases like mumps, measles, and rubella. Even tuburculosis and the horrible crippling disease of polio, formerly considered extinct, is on the rise.

Why, in this day of new and increasingly dangerous epidemics such as AIDS and SARS, are we allowing idiots to disarm our bottom-line defenses against diseases we defeated decades ago? This is sheer insanity.

I think both clodfobble and jinx have clearly demonstrated that people make the choices that they make based on the information they have or can acquire. your initial post insults and lumps all non vaccinators together under the label 'lunatics' and 'idiots'. ...and goes on to note that these non vaccinating lunatics typically do you the injustice of assuming that you're undereducated about them. And here you are doing that exact thing. as usual, you're talking out of your ass. you're an inflamatory hypocrite troll. Of course, I'm probably just picking on you because I'm mean.

but hey...you're very creative and artsy and independant....so maybe you're just ahead of your time and misunderstood?

Originally Posted by lumberjim

I think both clodfobble and jinx have clearly demonstrated that people make the choices that they make based on the information they have or can acquire. your initial post insults and lumps all non vaccinators together under the label 'lunatics' and 'idiots'. ...and goes on to note that these non vaccinating lunatics typically do you the injustice of assuming that you're undereducated about them. And here you are doing that exact thing. as usual, you're talking out of your ass. you're an inflamatory hypocrite troll. Of course, I'm probably just picking on you because I'm mean.

but hey...you're very creative and artsy and independant....so maybe you're just ahead of your time and misunderstood?

I love how, if you can't actually refute points you disagree with, you simply resort to personal attacks, which you then gleefully drag around from thread to thread pretending you're being "friendly".

You're not especially bright, and it shows.

^^^^^See that, LJ? That's a personal attack, against you, a person. Not a general opinion such as "I think people who don't vaccinate are irresponsible idiots who are a threat to society". That's not a personal attack, it's a strongly-worded opinion.

[Flint]

ur a poop

Originally Posted by Flint

ur a poop

At least Flint has style.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by Tiki

I love how, if you can't actually refute points you disagree with, you simply resort to personal attacks, which you then gleefully drag around from thread to thread pretending you're being "friendly".

You're not especially bright, and it shows.

^^^^^See that, LJ? That's a personal attack, against you, a person. Not a general opinion such as "I think people who don't vaccinate are irresponsible idiots who are a threat to society". That's not a personal attack, it's a strongly-worded opinion.

oh wayull shazammmm.....thanks for edjumacatin me, thar tiki....you suuuure is smart. yoooo must be wunna dem collidge gerls....



I may not be all that bright, but I'm smart enough to recognize an arrogant twat when i hear one.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

oh wayull shazammmm.....thanks for edjumacatin me, thar tiki....you suuuure is smart. yoooo must be wunna dem collidge gerls....



I may not be all that bright, but I'm smart enough to recognize an arrogant twat when i hear one.

Good job of proving my point... when unable to come up with an actual rebuttal, resort to childish name-calling. What exactly is up with the chip on your shoulder regarding education, anyway? You realize that I have a third-grade education, right... that I never went to high school, let alone graduated it, never took my GED, and I am so excited about going to college now because I'm thirty-eight and have no degree at all? I have sixteen credits in miscellaneous classes I've taken at PCC over the last 20 years, and that's it.

Everything I know, I know because I like to read about things, and I like to know as much as possible about something before I form an opinion. I also like to continue learning about things I'm interested in so that if I'm mistaken about something I can change my mind. I don't think that's a bad thing, and it's a trait I admire in other people.

So if you want to ignore the actual relevant content of my posts and fixate on your apparently terribly insecure perception of me as some smug ivory-tower twat, go for it, but in that case we really have nothing further to say to each other, ever, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped taking cheap pot-shots at me in every thread I post in.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Good job of proving my point... when unable to come up with an actual rebuttal, resort to childish name-calling. What exactly is up with the chip on your shoulder regarding education, anyway? You realize that I have a third-grade education, right... that I never went to high school, let alone graduated it, never took my GED, and I am so excited about going to college now because I'm thirty-eight and have no degree at all? I have sixteen credits in miscellaneous classes I've taken at PCC over the last 20 years, and that's it.

Everything I know, I know because I like to read about things, and I like to know as much as possible about something before I form an opinion. I also like to continue learning about things I'm interested in so that if I'm mistaken about something I can change my mind. I don't think that's a bad thing, and it's a trait I admire in other people.

oh look!... more reasons you're so great! yay tiki! you win at life!

Originally Posted by Tiki

So if you want to ignore the actual relevant content of my posts and fixate on your apparently terribly insecure perception of me as some smug ivory-tower twat, go for it, but in that case we really have nothing further to say to each other, ever, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped taking cheap pot-shots at me in every thread I post in.

In the last two days, I've addressed you in two threads, tiki. and in the other one it actually did begin as friendly poking...you insisted on taking it to heart and got all bent. even after i pointed out that i was just kidding around. whatever.

as far as rebutting your points, it's been done already. as i said.....clobble and jinx have done. the issue I was rebutting...that you seem to be ignoring...is this:

When you say: I find that a typical reaction to my pro-vaccination opinion is to assume that I simply haven't read enough.

after having labeled them lunatics .....YOU'RE BEING A HYPOCRITE!

you are making the same assumption you accuse them of making. you don't consider that maybe these people have done EVEN MORE research than you have done. seems like jinx might have done at least as much homework as you have, maybe?

On top of that, your whole tone is abrasive and shitty, and whether you intend to or not, you come off like you know better than the rest of us. I don't give a fuck if you educated yourself ....i have zero issue with your education. I have an issue with your smug super hippie attitude. you're the MOST creative...you're the MOST feeling.....You're the MOST sensitive.

barf

you wanna be strangers?

great!

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

I may not be all that bright, but I'm smart enough to recognize an arrogant twat when i hear one.

That's a usertitle waiting to happen.

Originally Posted by DanaC

That's a usertitle waiting to happen.

You, madame, are genius.

[Aliantha]

That sounds about the same as the figures we get over here Dana.

It's a concern. So much so that I worry about taking Max out in crowds because he could get whooping cough. I know it's alarmist to base my reaction on an isolated case, but my aunts friend just had to bury her 1 month old due to the disease. I don't want to take the chance, and it's a shame that there's a higher risk now than there was previously simply because some people choose not to immunise.

[DanaC]

I do think that the medical profession could go a long way to alleviating the situation if they were more sympathetc to those parents who wish to stagger the vaccinations. By trying to insist on a one-size-fits-all approach, they are pushing away people who are open to the idea, but have concerns about multiple vaccination.

Originally Posted by DanaC

I do think that the medical profession could go a long way to alleviating the situation if they were more sympathetc to those parents who wish to stagger the vaccinations. By trying to insist on a one-size-fits-all approach, they are pushing away people who are open to the idea, but have concerns about multiple vaccination.

With all three of my kids, my doctors have been very accommodating, and offered (without my asking) to special-order single vaccines they don't stock.

It was really a non-issue.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I do think that the medical profession could go a long way to alleviating the situation if they were more sympathetc to those parents who wish to stagger the vaccinations. By trying to insist on a one-size-fits-all approach, they are pushing away people who are open to the idea, but have concerns about multiple vaccination.

It's far easier for parents here to exempt their children from all vaccines than it is to selectively vaccinate. It's nothing like 10 years ago though, thanks to doctors and school officials becoming better informed (school officials used to think it was their business).