Guernica II

Pangloss62 · 10-10-2006, 09:38 AM

If you happened to be watching any of yesterday's coverage of the U.N. Security Council as they dealt with N. Korea's alleged nuke test, you may have noticed a large tapestry reproduction of Piccaso's famous Guernica painting as the various talking heads marched to their designated talking head spot. It was really surreal to see these U.N. officials walk in front of perhaps the most visceral artistic expression of war ever produced in the 20th century.

You may recall that when Colin Powell made his case for Iraq II at the U.N., they covered Guernica up. Both the left and right still argue about the motivations for doing so then, but you could see it yesterday, and "ironic" is too weak a word to describe the effect. Maybe John Bolton will choose to speak in front of a Thomas Kinkade painting.

BigV · 10-10-2006, 12:02 PM

I read John Bolton as more of a Mondrian man, myself. All straight lines, only a couple of differnt colors, no curves, no greys, everything literally colored inside the lines.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-11-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pangloss62

It was really surreal to see these U.N. officials walk in front of perhaps the most visceral artistic expression of war ever produced in the 20th century.

Thanks for explaining what that hideous piece of crap is suppose to represent.

Trilby · 10-14-2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Thanks for explaining what that hideous piece of crap is suppose to represent.

I like it.

Pangloss62 · 10-14-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Thanks for explaining what that hideous piece of crap is suppose to represent.

You're welcome.

Tonchi · 10-15-2006, 04:56 AM

It's the ONLY Picasso of that phase of his which I like.

You really have to see the original, Bruce. It is more than life size. Do you know what happened at Guernica? On April 27, 1937, Adolf Hilter’s air force bombed the Basque village of Guernica for target practice. It was a market day. Approximately 1,654 people were murdered and 889 injured. (Statistics from an article about the painting.) Maybe this painting makes more sense to a resident of Bagdad. I wonder how many of them think we are less barbaric than the Germans.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-15-2006, 04:42 PM

I don't like Picasso's work. As a matter of fact I dislike it so much, I won't even say anything nice about it to get laid.

I've been told by art "experts", I would like it if I understood it, but I contend if it doesn't explain itself, it, and the artist, are not doing their job.

I also feel the art "experts" would sell you their kids drawings off the refrigerator, for a whole lot of money and with a straight face, if they could.

The bottom line is what Kirk said, "Art is what you can get away with".

Tonchi · 10-15-2006, 06:09 PM

Yeah, and in the end, "value" is what you can get some schmuck to pay for something. I do not like "modern art" and I agree that much of it (especially the so-called performance art) is a scam. But THIS particular painting has always had an impact on me. Compared to the "classical" painters and their posed battlefields, this work is wrenching, tragic. It is agony and horror, it is not supposed to be pretty.

Pangloss62 · 10-18-2006, 06:15 PM

"I don't like Picasso's work. As a matter of fact I dislike it so much, I won't even say anything nice about it to get laid."

Well, Bruce, I suppose you don't like Art Blakey, Jimmy Smith, or any other Jazz artists either. Maybe you like Kenny G., however. It takes IMAGINATION to appreciate the abstract, in all areas of art. Abstract Expressionism is just one genre of many, but don't throw the baby out with what you think is all bathwater.

"I contend if it doesn't explain itself, it, and the artist, are not doing their job."

That statement certainly indicates your "understanding" of art. Are you saying you ONLY like representational art? If so, that's kind of sad, because that's the only kind of art that "explains" itself.

That said, I still think my statement about Guernica is valid.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-18-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pangloss62

"I don't like Picasso's work. As a matter of fact I dislike it so much, I won't even say anything nice about it to get laid."

Well, Bruce, I suppose you don't like Art Blakey, Jimmy Smith, or any other Jazz artists either. Maybe you like Kenny G.,

Ya got me, I didn't know Picasso played jazz.

Quote:

however, It takes IMAGINATION to appreciate the abstract, in all areas of art. Abstract Expressionism is just one genre of many, but don't throw the baby out with what you think is all bathwater.

I IMAGINE a pompous asshole, dictating what art (and music) everyone should like and if they don't agree, they're ignorant, uncouth, uneducated, unappreciative, street rabble.

Quote:

"I contend if it doesn't explain itself, it, and the artist, are not doing their job."

That statement certainly indicates your "understanding" of art. Are you saying you ONLY like representational art? If so, that's kind of sad, because that's the only kind of art that "explains" itself.

It indicates I understand enough to not be duped into extolling the virtues of crap, to try and convince the other pompous assholes, I'm cultured enough to be worthy of their acceptance.

Quote:

That said, I still think my statement about Guernica is valid.

I think your statement is valid, too.
You see those of us that are not pompous assholes, understand that art is personal and accept that other people will have their own view, without accusing them of not understanding, not having imagination and having an opinion unworthy of consideration.
I don't care if you like it, whereas you've shown you care that I don't.

Pangloss62 · 10-19-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

whereas you've shown you care that I don't.

What I care about is responding to a rather simplistic, defiinitive declaration that a particular work of art is a "piece of crap." That's not expressing an opinion, and it certainly is not even an attempt to say WHY you think it is a "piece of crap." I would much rather be a pompous asshole than a person who just delcares things "crap" (or a piece thereof) without saying why. And you obviously must have cared to some extent that I elevated the painting to such historical importance (curiously, I never really declared that it was "good" or that I even I liked it) or you wouldn't have reacted so...well, succinctly.

Besides, I'm actually not that pompous. I'm a high school dropout who worked 10 years of shite jobs before I decided to go to college. I didn't live under a bridge, but I did live in a boarding house and ate hot dogs out of an electric teapot. While in college, I happened to get interested in art and spent a lot of time studying it. I like art and I like discussing it.

Peace

Happy Monkey · 10-19-2006, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pangloss62

What I care about is responding to a rather simplistic, defiinitive declaration that a particular work of art is a "piece of crap." That's not expressing an opinion,

Yes it is.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-20-2006, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pangloss62

What I care about is responding to a rather simplistic, defiinitive declaration that a particular work of art is a "piece of crap." That's not expressing an opinion, and it certainly is not even an attempt to say WHY you think it is a "piece of crap." I would much rather be a pompous asshole than a person who just delcares things "crap" (or a piece thereof) without saying why. And you obviously must have cared to some extent that I elevated the painting to such historical importance (curiously, I never really declared that it was "good" or that I even I liked it) or you wouldn't have reacted so...well, succinctly.

Besides, I'm actually not that pompous. I'm a high school dropout who worked 10 years of shite jobs before I decided to go to college. I didn't live under a bridge, but I did live in a boarding house and ate hot dogs out of an electric teapot. While in college, I happened to get interested in art and spent a lot of time studying it. I like art and I like discussing it.

Peace

A pompous attitude does not require money or storied background.

Back in post seven I said;

Quote:

I've been told by art "experts", I would like it if I understood it...

That condescending attitude, that my opinion is of no value because I have not been properly educated, which is self evidenced by the fact I don't like the painting, sets me off, unless I happen to be in a verrrry good mood.

When you followed the same vein, I was not in a good mood.

Why is it crap? Because it's ugly, hideous even. When I hear people extol Picasso's virtues, well, that of his work, I'm reminded of snake oil salesmen.

That said, I admit I over reacted and apologize for that.

10-18-2006, 06:33 PM

One of my favorite paintings of his, was not until I saw it in person.

JayMcGee · 10-18-2006, 06:37 PM

We have become so used to death & destruction rained upon us from afar, we have perhaps forgotten the impact that Guernica made.

This was the *first* time ( ie it had *never* happenned before) that a town, rather than a military target, had been comprehesively and deliberately attacked from the air. Think of it as the 9\11 of the time, and you might begin to appreciate the impact, and how the concept of aerial bombardment of civiian population centres changed the world

10-10-2006, 09:38 AM	#1
Pangloss62 Lecturer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 768	Guernica II If you happened to be watching any of yesterday's coverage of the U.N. Security Council as they dealt with N. Korea's alleged nuke test, you may have noticed a large tapestry reproduction of Piccaso's famous Guernica painting as the various talking heads marched to their designated talking head spot. It was really surreal to see these U.N. officials walk in front of perhaps the most visceral artistic expression of war ever produced in the 20th century. You may recall that when Colin Powell made his case for Iraq II at the U.N., they covered Guernica up. Both the left and right still argue about the motivations for doing so then, but you could see it yesterday, and "ironic" is too weak a word to describe the effect. Maybe John Bolton will choose to speak in front of a Thomas Kinkade painting. __________________ Things are never as good, or bad, as they seem. Last edited by Pangloss62; 10-10-2006 at 09:46 AM.

10-10-2006, 12:02 PM	#2
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	I read John Bolton as more of a Mondrian man, myself. All straight lines, only a couple of differnt colors, no curves, no greys, everything literally colored inside the lines. Attached Images __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

10-15-2006, 04:56 AM	#6
Tonchi Victim of gravity Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hiding in plain sight Posts: 1,412	It's the ONLY Picasso of that phase of his which I like. You really have to see the original, Bruce. It is more than life size. Do you know what happened at Guernica? On April 27, 1937, Adolf Hilter’s air force bombed the Basque village of Guernica for target practice. It was a market day. Approximately 1,654 people were murdered and 889 injured. (Statistics from an article about the painting.) Maybe this painting makes more sense to a resident of Bagdad. I wonder how many of them think we are less barbaric than the Germans. __________________ Everything you've ever heard about Fresno is true.

10-15-2006, 04:42 PM	#7
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I don't like Picasso's work. As a matter of fact I dislike it so much, I won't even say anything nice about it to get laid. I've been told by art "experts", I would like it if I understood it, but I contend if it doesn't explain itself, it, and the artist, are not doing their job. I also feel the art "experts" would sell you their kids drawings off the refrigerator, for a whole lot of money and with a straight face, if they could. The bottom line is what Kirk said, "Art is what you can get away with". __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

10-15-2006, 06:09 PM	#8
Tonchi Victim of gravity Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hiding in plain sight Posts: 1,412	Yeah, and in the end, "value" is what you can get some schmuck to pay for something. I do not like "modern art" and I agree that much of it (especially the so-called performance art) is a scam. But THIS particular painting has always had an impact on me. Compared to the "classical" painters and their posed battlefields, this work is wrenching, tragic. It is agony and horror, it is not supposed to be pretty. __________________ Everything you've ever heard about Fresno is true.

10-18-2006, 06:15 PM	#9
Pangloss62 Lecturer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 768	Art "I don't like Picasso's work. As a matter of fact I dislike it so much, I won't even say anything nice about it to get laid." Well, Bruce, I suppose you don't like Art Blakey, Jimmy Smith, or any other Jazz artists either. Maybe you like Kenny G., however. It takes IMAGINATION to appreciate the abstract, in all areas of art. Abstract Expressionism is just one genre of many, but don't throw the baby out with what you think is all bathwater. "I contend if it doesn't explain itself, it, and the artist, are not doing their job." That statement certainly indicates your "understanding" of art. Are you saying you ONLY like representational art? If so, that's kind of sad, because that's the only kind of art that "explains" itself. That said, I still think my statement about Guernica is valid. __________________ Things are never as good, or bad, as they seem.

10-18-2006, 06:33 PM	#14
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	One of my favorite paintings of his, was not until I saw it in person.

10-18-2006, 06:37 PM	#15
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	We have become so used to death & destruction rained upon us from afar, we have perhaps forgotten the impact that Guernica made. This was the first time ( ie it had never happenned before) that a town, rather than a military target, had been comprehesively and deliberately attacked from the air. Think of it as the 9\11 of the time, and you might begin to appreciate the impact, and how the concept of aerial bombardment of civiian population centres changed the world __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

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