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Old 10-22-2006, 08:48 AM   #1
Pangloss62
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Watching The Snowball

The "November Surprise" that may actually occur in October will be a Rove-constructed, rhetorical reorientation for W. Presently, God's Own Party is watching a snowball roll downhill, but soon all will be on the same page as Rove will appropriate the Democratic criticism of the Iraq War and turn it to W's advantage. Bush will present himself as someone who is willing to think on his feat, make changes (what the Dems suggested, and what the neocons said was "cut and run"), and change the course rather than "stay the course." Expect some bold speech from our leader that will pull the rug out from under the Dems, even using some of their few suggestions on how to deal with Iraq. Bush will appease his own' party's critics with Rovian rhetoric and W's base will say "Wow! He's finally listening to us," and will concomitantly return to the fold. The Democrats, who have done more complaining than really present a viable strategy for Iraq, will be caught standing with their collective pants down.

Of course, the above is a BCS, and it may end up as too little too late, but W. et al can not keep watching that snowball without doing anything. Or, considering his apparent inability to admit that he and his advisors were wrong a long time ago (if even to himself), perhaps we'll all get to watch that snowball keep gathering speed and more snow. Perhaps today's talking heads shows will reveal something.
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Old 10-22-2006, 07:00 PM   #2
tw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangloss62
... but W. et al can not keep watching that snowball without doing anything.
Apparently Iraqis have been suggested the plan for America's withdrawal. Maliki is said to be worried because government forces have no teeth and Iraq has never been so violent - and getting more violent.

Of course, the trick is to spin it as a withdrawal - not a defeat. That military defeat must be conducted similar to an American withdrawal from Vietnam - the other American defeat also directly traceable to Presidential lies. James Baker has repeatedly hinted that withdrawal will be his commission's recommendation to the White House. That recommendation is scheduled for release after November elections. Interesting will be if George Jr has it released or leaked before those elections.

Reality remains - without 500,000 troops for one year, then "Mission Accomplished" cannot be won and will only get worse. Why? Exasperated because we are there. Predicted more than 3 years ago by American actions that repeatedly violated Military Science 101 principles.
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Old 10-22-2006, 07:15 PM   #3
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Andy Rooney of CBS News (a legendary TV news magazine) 60 Minutes has just said "we should have never gone and we should get out" ... if I have quoted him accurately from memory. Is this akin to Walter Cronkite who went to Vietnam and said the war is lost? Well another lying president (Nixon) massacred 35,000 of America's best in Vietnam only because Nixon and his agenda were more important than America.

Even Walter Cronkite told America an obvious fact. And yet, 'big dics' back then still kept massacring Americans in a war that could never be won and that was created by political lies. Deja Vue?
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Old 10-22-2006, 07:55 PM   #4
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In order for Jr. to engage in the scenario outlined in the OP, he would (gasp!) have to listen to his advisors. Never say, never, but suppose Jr. and the 'Pubs did carry out this last minute campaign strategy (and last minute it will be, November is almost upon us). Do you really think Jr. would keep his word? If you do, you should be locked up in one of those nice places where they take every such good care of you and your relatives visit (or don't) on Sundays.

If tricky George tries that tactic and doesn't come through on his word, the only thing that will save the Republican party in '08 is Diebold.
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Old 10-22-2006, 08:28 PM   #5
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OMG!

Quote:
the only thing that will save the Republican party in '08 is Diebold.
That is not onlyOrwellian, but likely true. The last time I voted here in GA, I said, sarcastically, "Can I have a receipt for my vote?" They said "No." I then said "Why not?" and the dude said "We're not allowed to say." Holy F*&^%!
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Old 10-23-2006, 03:00 PM   #6
Trilby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tw
Andy Rooney of CBS News (a legendary TV news magazine) 60 Minutes
Who doesn't know this?

plus, dude, relax. CAN you relax? I fear your PTSD has taken over.


Dammit. Now I've responded to a tw post. Damn my hide.

Damn it good.
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Old 10-23-2006, 06:56 PM   #7
tw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianna
Who doesn't know this?

plus, dude, relax. CAN you relax?
Brianna, why do you so hate America? Tone reflects the seriousness of those posts. We are not talking about sex in the Oval Office. We are talking about useless murder of Americans. Why do you, Brianna, so hate America as to not even criticize torture, extraordinary rendition, wiretapping without judicial review, secret prisons, etc. Same reasons why four died in O-Hi-O.

53% of America do not know. Even though a majority has only recently agreed with my four year old posts, still (as also happened during Nixon and Vietnam), a majority remain opposed to a necessary unilateral withdrawal. Yes "Who doesn't know this?" Many. Notice the many with so little grasp as to criticize Gen Dannatt.

The bastard even went to CA for a campaign fund raiser as a category 5 hurricane was attacking a city designed only for category 3. But again, how many must die?

Accurately defined long before "Mission Accomplished" was proclaimed were obvious facts such as 'no smoking gun', 'no strategic objective', and therefore 'no exit strategy'. Even 'mission creep' was inevitable. Iraq was denied both four years ago and still denied 2800+ dead Americans later. George Jr administration demonstrates contempt for the troops. Do you?

Probably 10,000 wounded Americans because so many had facts and yet still oppose a withdrawal. Many stay quiet and still oppose the inevitable - just like Nam. Withdrawal is not obvious to most Americans. Over 10,000 casualties for what purpose? So we can 'stay the course'? Bring it on? Religious extremists who actually do vote and who want Armageddon (most here do not vote) – do you really think they who do vote understand why withdrawal is our only option? Need we wait - like during Nixon - for that number to reach 20,000? How many thousand more will die before we admit defeat? How many more amputees need we create?

They don't decide to become a casualty. We make that decision. How many more must die?

Last edited by tw; 10-23-2006 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 10-24-2006, 10:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianna
Dammit. Now I've responded to a tw post. Damn my hide.
Damn it good.
If you'd like a good scrubbing, the local fire deparment can hose you down. I hear they have a special crew, just for that.
And TW, calm yourself, child. Anti-American? Seriously? You sound like the R's you villify so frequently. At first I thought it was mockery, and now I realize you're serious.
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Old 10-24-2006, 07:04 PM   #9
tw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headsplice
At first I thought it was mockery, and now I realize you're serious.
If you think I posted anything emotional, then get your ears on - you don't yet know what may be coming We are now at the edge of a cliff in Iraq. It is that desperate. Total withdrawal (military defeat) is our only option in a few months. Total disintegration of Iraq will be inevitable; determined by what we do in a next few months. All options will terminate probably at then end of this year. Tell me where panic is in this reality.

Did you notice an emergency deployment of aircraft carriers apparently to the Gulf? Why not? If you think for one minute that I have expressed emotions - then insufficient grasp of logic exists. Most every Cellar Dweller was in ostrich mode years ago - denying what was regarded as an alarmist posts. Did you foresee a thousand dead Americans years ago? Why not? Because that reality was too alarmist back then?

I don't mock. That you even suspected mockery suggests an ostrich grasp of reality still remains. 10,000 casualties is not for one minute an emotion – it is a fact. If you perceive emotion in what was posted, then why is your grasp of reality not so ruthless?

To not stand up for the troops now - to "Stay the Course" - is to hate soldiers as we did to the troops in Vietnam. 20,000 casualties was not mockery. 20,000 is directly traceable to indecision and a lying president. ‘Calm down’ suggests one is too many years behind reality – also called ‘denial’. Nothing posted was emotional. That attitude will be normal in a few years if we don’t save those troops lives now.

They don’t decide to be wasted casualties. We do that - now. Options are about to expire. How many thousands will die is decided in these next few months by us. One who does not see the cliff would say, “Calm down”. Do you see that cliff, headsplice? If not, then why not ... is what you should be asking. All options are about to expire. Why do you not yet see the cliff?
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Old 10-22-2006, 08:19 PM   #10
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tw, did you seriously just try to equate Walter Cronkite with Andy-fucking-Rooney? If Bozo the Clown said the Iraq war was bad, would he suddenly become a respected statesman too?
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Old 10-22-2006, 09:03 PM   #11
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Is that anything like 'chicken surprise'?
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Old 10-23-2006, 09:09 AM   #12
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It's difficult, in the realm of political posturing, to disagree just the right amount with entrenched psychological ploys. If you hedge your bets, your position isn't really an alternative, IE John "I'm running against Bush but we pretty much agree on everything" Kerry.

If you're afraid to go out on a limb, that's where you'll probably end up.

The Republicans are much better at "framing" the issues...
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Old 10-23-2006, 09:18 AM   #13
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The Hollywood cocktail party crowd is so certain the fix is in, they're planning to send their chauffeurs to the rallies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyn Davis Lear in HuffPost
When I asked Gore Vidal at dinner why the White House seemed so serene and at ease about the vote, he replied that, this time around, the Bush-Cheney henchmen could simply call on martial law. He glumly noted that we are so far down the road toward totalitarianism that, even if Democrats do win back the Congress, it would take at least two generations before the last six years of damage to the nation could be reversed. Gore frankly despaired that any amount of time could ever return the country to where and what it previously was. This prediction left me reaching for some Fernet Branca.

...the White House's freakish calm about the elections makes me as nervous as the hell we seem to be headed for. Therefore we should all be on alert. If for whatever reason we don't win back Congress in November the only real answer will be to take to the streets.
Gore Vidal will be armed and dangerous with a broken Ketel One bottle in one hand and a plastic sword of speared olives in the other. Avoid Beverly Hills if the Republicans win.
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Old 10-23-2006, 09:28 AM   #14
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Four years after the entire intelligent world knew, Shrub has admitted to similarities between Viet Nam and Iraq, and has begun the process of setting a timetable for withdrawl.

A - Why did everyone else know before this administration?
B - Did this administration know, but lied?
C - Is the Cheney adminstration now leading the "party of cut and run"?
D - Is this the type of waffling that this administration criticized Kerry of, during the last presidential election?
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Old 10-23-2006, 09:28 AM   #15
Flint
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Quote:
If for whatever reason we don't win back Congress in November the only real answer will be to take to the streets.
Can you even say things like this anymore? Doesn't this make you some kind of non-human combatant? Seriously...how vague is that new law?
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