Sitting on the fence....

[DucksNuts]

I've been going over this in my mind for a few days, and I just cant come to a conclusion that I am comfortable with.....sooooo, thought I would throw it out there and get some different perspectives.

Say you know someone, who has 2 children, but always wanted 3.....always...like saw it in her *dreams* forever and doesnt seem to be able to be feel *done* with the 2 children that she has.

Problem is, her EX husband, is ...well....her ex husband.... she feels her body clock is ticking and although she has been seeing someone for a few months now...natch, its gonna be a loooooong way off before they have that conversation and their views dont seem to be aligning in that particular department.

So, she says to you, her long time friend.....she WANTS to have another baby and she doesnt think she should (or can) wait until the 15 different things that need to align with that certain person.... that she may never meet....happen and THEN they decide to go down the path of trying to get pregnant....by which time she will be into the *increased risk* age group.

The next thing out of her mouth is......"Should I just get knocked up by somebody?, or do you really think I should consider genetics and whatnot?"

<<< Im pretty sure my face looked like that....then I started thinking about it.

When you meet someone, and you start dating....you dont ask about their genetics and whether there is a history of a,b,c in their family?

When you are sleeping with a new partner that you trust and there is always the risk you may get pregnant....you dont think about their genetics do you?

She is raising 2 children on her own now, so she isnt ill informed there and she made it blatantly clear that she wants NO financial involvement from the sperm donour, or parental involvement for that matter.

I'm like...."what about STIs?, will it be someone you know?, one nite stands?, what if they want to be involved?, what about the child? how will you explain you just wanted to have another baby? what about future partners?".

To which she said..."obviously I have a lot of thinking to do".

Couple of days later, she blurts out with "I asked J if he would be a willing donour and he said yes".

WTF? J is a guy who we have been friends with for 10 years, there has always been a bit of attraction there I reckon, but the timing has never been right.

Honestly though, he's great sperm potential. Smart, courteous, good looking, small family with no real big health issues (we are all close)....hell...I wouldnt mind having a baby with him.

Pragmatic as all fuck, and maybe apathetic (?) towards life....but I dont know if I could see him just fucking her and then not being involved with the rest of the process....hes not that kinda guy...but its what she wants?

She doesnt want to go down the whole sperm bank route, and I dont think she would be able to considering her circumstances.

Adoption? probably not an option for the same reasons.

Look, I know its wrong....but shes a really logical chick and makes some really good points.

Honestly, if she wanted too....she could just go out and pick up until she got pregnant.

I....just....dont....know......

[ZenGum]

Urge your friend - and J - to consult a lawyer first.
I recall a case a few years ago, I'm pretty sure it was in Australia, I think it was in Victoria. A couple of lesbians wanted a baby, and a (male) friend was willing to donate his sperm. They agreed that he would have no rights or responsibilities at all, no child support, no access, nothing. Conception was successful. A year or two later, things had gone pear-shaped (can't remember the details) and wound up in court. Judge ruled that the man did have parental rights and responsibilities, despite all parties agreeing in advance, in writing, that he would not. Crucial in this judgment was that they had had regular genital sex to conceive. Apparently if they had done a hand-job-turkey-baster method the parental status would not have arisen. Go figure.

My memory is a little hazy here, many of the details could be inaccurate, but the gist is pretty solid. Especially the bit about the technique mattering so much, that was why I remembered it at all.

Good luck to her.

[Sundae]

Sorry, I'm just weirded out by her wanting to have 3 children more than she wants the child to have a good father.

I'm the middle child of three, and although I haven't robbed any banks or killed anyone I did hate being the middle child - even before I know other people did too. And not having a father on the scene....? Unimaginable for me, and very wrong in my mind.

Just tell her to shush.

[DanaC]

I don't think 'wrong' and 'right' are particularly useful terms in this situation. If both parties are happy to do it, then who are we to judge? The woman wants a third baby, again, who are we to judge? What about people who've grown up thinking they only want a single child, do we judge them for the emotional cost of having no siblings?

As to the father not being involved, again that's a choice. Plenty of good single parents out there and happy children. As long as there are some male role models around, it doesn't have to be the nuclear family as we understand it.

[Pie]

Almost by definition, we can't all give our children the "perfect" upbringing. We all have something less than optimal in our lives -- we have less financial security than we'd like, we have imperfect genetics, imperfect families, not the best school district, etc.
If she's already a single mom to two kids, she knows what she's up against. If she believes she can support them, and raise them well, best wishes to her!
(I do agree with Zen about the legal aspect.)

[Clodfobble]

I know women who have gone the whole one-night-stand route to deliberate pregnancy. Right or wrong, if it's what she wants, she's going to do it--but I personally think it's a bad idea to use a friend as a sperm donor. It will complicate the relationship, not just legally but emotionally. If she's already decided to raise it alone, then anonymous is really the only logical way to go. It doesn't matter what either of them says now, once a baby's born either one of them could change their minds for whatever reason and take it to court.

[elSicomoro]

A story I was once told by a friend of Rhoda's...

This woman wanted a child and asked a friend to donate his sperm...no strings attached. He did so, but later on, she started pestering him to be involved with the child...he reminded her of the "no strings attached" deal. She then took him to court and won child support from him. He apparently had no legal leg to stand on because the state said it would not be responsible for the child, so long as it had a father.

How true this is, I don't know...I thought Z could be over the top at times. If your friend wants a child, she'll have it. And every person's emotional system is unique...if I were a chick and I wanted a kid but weren't in a relationship, I'd probably hit a sperm bank. Having a friend volunteer is just way too risky, as is the one-night-stand plan.

[Aliantha]

I'm with sycamore on this one. There are too many variables if you let someone donate sperm or you have a one night stand. What if you see that guy you had a one night stand with a few months after you fall preggers and he wants to know who the father is? Do you lie and tell him it wasn't him? It's just really risky, aside from the fact that maybe the unknowing 'sperm donor' might really want to have a child.

I had a friend who deliberately got preggers to a guy she'd been seeing for only a month or so. She told him it was an accident. Now the father has nothing to do with the child and she's a single mother. Also, she and I are no longer friends because she didn't like it when I told her what I thought about the situation (after she asked me what I thought).

[Elspode]

I'm half serious about this, but only half.

Can she *buy* his sperm from him? He could give her a receipt, and therefore it wouldn't be his anymore, and she could do with it as she pleased...after all, it would be hers. Everyone keeps talking about sperm *donors*. What about sperm *sellers*?

Mightn't that relieve the seller of all responsibility?

[Aliantha]

Hey that's a good idea Els. I wonder if that's how the sperm bank does it anyway? They buy the sperm from the donor don't they?

[Undertoad]

Do it like a firing line: mix five different guys into the baster, and may the fastest sperm win. And do it double-blind so neither the woman nor the men know whose batch was in whom.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Do it like a firing line: mix five different guys into the baster, and may the fastest sperm win. And do it double-blind so neither the woman nor the men know whose batch was in whom.

There's a creative logic to this that I really like. Lateral thinking. Or perversion. Most likely both. Mind you, it would greatly increase the risk of disease.

But seriously, whatever she does, anticipate that in at various times during the child's life, the questions, "Who is my father? Where is he? Why isn't he involved in my life?" are going to come up. Your friend might want to figure out how she's going to answer these, before she takes action. Explaining UT's suggestion might be ... tricky.... "Well, sweetie, I got these five guys, right ..." "Mom stop right there!"

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I'm with SG -- this would be nuts. She's a single mother with two kids, now she wants to increase her labors by a third if she's lucky?? Well planned this ain't.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I'm with SG -- this would be nuts. She's a single mother with two kids, now she wants to increase her labors by a third if she's lucky?? Well planned this ain't.

1/3?

1/2.

likely more, but not 1/3. do the math.

:

[DucksNuts]

Good points raised by all....thanks.

I have been speaking to her regarding the legalities.

Bit more info for you I guess.....Shes CEO of an accounting firm, with an au pair, so $$ and care arent an issue.

Her ex husband decided he didnt want anything to do with *their* kids when they split up, it was apparently happy families or bust in his eyes.

She decided that as he didnt want to have anything to do with them, she didnt want any of his money.

I dont think she would be changing the rules down the track....its just the type of person she is.

SG - I really do hear what you are saying.....but I dont see her willingly and with an open mind/heart.....bringing another child into the world to be raised as a single parent child.....any worse off than his/her siblings, who will query about the Father that left and wanted nothing more to do with them. Or the kids in class with gay parents. Especially when you think what society will be like in another 5...10 years.

I mentioned about *purchasing* the sperm, and she was....."sooooo, we screw, I pay him.....hmmm.....he's a whore?"

Oh and Zen....that sounds vaguely like "Queer as Folk":p