Suspending Elections

Griff · 07-11-2004, 08:04 PM

I know I'm cynical but...

U.S. counterterrorism officials are looking at an emergency proposal on the legal steps needed to postpone the presidential election in case of such an attack, Newsweek reported on Sunday.

lumberjim · 07-11-2004, 08:24 PM

don't worry, griff. jane_says that's impossible.

from this thread in response to this post in that thread:

Quote:

Jane, let’s say the American apocalypse happens: Bush remains in office come January 2005. Not only that, let’s say that he signs an executive order granting himself martial authority, and it stays in effect for the duration of his term … which doesn’t end in 2008 because he refuses to hold election for “security reasons”. He disbands the legislature, assumes control of all three branches, and enforces his edicts with military power. The press is federalized, guns are seized, and every human baby is stamped with a V-chip at birth.

It’s 2020. 10 different attempts a revolution have been quelled because the technological dominance of the Homeland Security office allows them to isolated and eradicate anyone who gains a significant following in dissent. The country is beaten down by terror, the people unable to regain control of their own government.

~snip~

-sm

Beestie · 07-11-2004, 10:10 PM

Fear appears to be W's ally.

Griff · 07-12-2004, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

don't worry, griff. jane_says that's impossible.

from this thread in response to this post in that thread:

I give the Wise Alchy Sage credit for not getting caught up in that thread.

We are in an amazing place right now. If we look back at the much more significant threat of WWII, FDR was all about keeping the machine of democracy running, no matter what. Having the administration even float this idea is a nice victory for Osama. It's enough to make a libbytarian vote Democratic. Ridge's comments were a message to any crackpot that all they have to do is disrupt a few well chosen polling places and the election is closed. Any crackpot, even a few homegrown right wing nuts who want to stay the course or some ELF types who think it needs to get worse so it can get better could read that message the wrong way.

jaguar · 07-12-2004, 02:22 AM

If someone told you in 2000 that the reichstag would be smoking by now, what would you have said? Amazing how things change. Looks like bush's closest political allay is Osama, he's the thing most likely to keep him in power.

That's what I call an unholy alliance, a fundie president who beleives he's fighting god's war being kept in power by a fundie who think he's fighting gods war.

07-12-2004, 02:50 AM

I get this image in my mind of God with long white hair and a white beard, sitting on a golden throne in heaven. He reads the latest reports from earth handed to him by a worried angel and gets a really upset look on his face. "OK, send 'em in now," He says. Jesus and Mohammed approach with hang dog looks on their faces. "Can't you two get ANYTHING right?" He asks. "I said 'Peace on earth' NOT 'the earth in peices!"

Cyber Wolf · 07-12-2004, 08:59 AM

Right. In terms of the election itself, what's the absolute worst that could happen if terrorists attack polling stations on Election Day? The votes from those stations won't be counted. How many thousands (hundred thousands?)of polling stations are there across the US? Not to mention absentee ballots and the like? The terrorists would have to hit a LOT of stations in the 12 or so hours that elections are open. And even if they did, news of a station being hit would travel REAL fast and every other station in the US would be on guard. If it is Al Qaeda, then it's known they don't like to go after well guarded targets, more trouble and less chance of success.

Doing anything to move, postpone or otherwise alter the normal flow of the elections would only bolster the terrorists' morale. Now, what if we left the elections alone and went on through as planned? If a few sites are attacked, should be totally shut down and cower like a bad puppy looking at a raised rolled up newspaper? Or should we take what votes do get through and use them? Besides, in the normal course of an election, it's nothing new for votes to be lost, forged and mistallied. In a given year, there's plenty of votes that either don't get in or don't get counted correctly. I shouldn't have to remind anyone of the absolute tripe that was 2000's election process. If an attack should happen, acknowledge it, yes. Mourn what losses occur, yes. But don't STOP. Keep MOVING. Take what you've got and GO.

[offtopic]Also, along the lines of letting go and moving on, how long are flags supposed to be kept at half-mast for the death of a president? Around here, there's still flags being raised a half-mast and I can't figure out if there's a time period for it or if whoever's responsible just forgot/is lazy?[/offtopic]

Clodfobble · 07-12-2004, 09:34 AM

[offtopic]Also, along the lines of letting go and moving on, how long are flags supposed to be kept at half-mast for the death of a president? Around here, there's still flags being raised a half-mast and I can't figure out if there's a time period for it or if whoever's responsible just forgot/is lazy?[/offtopic]

Bush declared the period to be 30 days in this case.

lumberjim · 07-12-2004, 09:39 AM

i'm a bit worried that this is just the seed of something to come. So this gets pishawed, and this election comes and goes, and sanity forbid, GWB gets re-elected.....NEXT time, this comes up again, and maybe, just maybe they sneak it through. that's when the shit hits the fan.

and why is it automatically we should postpone the election? why not preempt it? do we think the terrorists can't postpone their attacks? and like CW said, if they wanted to effect our elections, they'd pretty much have to invade us full scale. duh.

this is really fucked up.

and jinx tells me, although i haven't seen it, that we've discussed "free speech zones" at bush rallies, and people are being arrested for adverse signage at those rallies?

if bush get's reelected, i'm going to go live with aunt Elsa in switzerland, american hater or not.

lookout123 · 07-12-2004, 10:12 AM

1) i don't agree with postponing the elections, but from a point of view it does make some sense.

2) i don't think they are talking about postponing to prevent further casualties in the event of an attack. the fear is probably more along the lines of preventing a repeat of spain's election. a couple hundred people die and the election goes in an absolutely unexpected direction. i personally think that if their was a pre-election attack in america it would actually shore up gwb's #'s just because of the collective personality of america. ( america - "you attacked us??? we'll put big flags in our car windows, attack a few gas station attendants, and nuke ya back to the stoneage". spain - "you attacked us??? we'll hand power to the guy who will pull us out so you won't be mad at us anymore"."
that is obviously oversimplified, but you get the point.

Cyber Wolf · 07-12-2004, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

i personally think that if their was a pre-election attack in america it would actually shore up gwb's #'s just because of the collective personality of america.

There is that. However, I think what Georgey's numbers will do also depends on how heavy a spin the media and politicians put on the event. At this point, there's lots more people who aren't as sure about Bush's actions (and those of his administration, let's not forget them in all this) in Iraq et al. as there were even a year ago. If the right spin gets put on a pre-election attack, especially if it's a particularly nasty one, then it might show that Bush and Friends "failed to protect the American people", that in fixing the fence of someone across town, he let the hole in his own backyard fence go unchecked. And if that spin takes hold we'll get the finger pointing and so-and-so didn't divulge the correct information blah blah blah. At this point I think the American populace could pick up on something like that as readily as they would run to lift Bush up on their shoulders and "stand with solidarity and purpose."

Happy Monkey · 07-12-2004, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

spain - "you attacked us??? we'll hand power to the guy who will pull us out so you won't be mad at us anymore"."
that is obviously oversimplified, but you get the point.

Actually, they kicked out the guys who immediately started to lie about the attack to further their political goals.

glatt · 07-12-2004, 12:21 PM

I think Jaguar is right on the money. The terrorists want Bush in office. He makes recruiting new terrorists very easy.

I'm not sure if a terrorist act just before the election hurts Bush or helps him. I think a lot of it depends on how Kerry spins the attack. If Kerry has a spine, he will say that Bush was unable to prevent the attack and even helped to cause it to happen with his heavy handedness around the world.

If Kerry doesn't have a spine, he will say that we all need to come together, and that he supports the President. Bush would win in that situation.

If anyone calls for postponing the elections because of terrorism, I fear that will be the beginning of the end of this country.

07-12-2004, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

i'm a bit worried that this is just the seed of something to come. So this gets pishawed, and this election comes and goes, and sanity forbid, GWB gets re-elected.....NEXT time, this comes up again, and maybe, just maybe they sneak it through. that's when the shit hits the fan.

and why is it automatically we should postpone the election? why not preempt it? do we think the terrorists can't postpone their attacks? and like CW said, if they wanted to effect our elections, they'd pretty much have to invade us full scale. duh.

this is really fucked up.

and jinx tells me, although i haven't seen it, that we've discussed "free speech zones" at bush rallies, and people are being arrested for adverse signage at those rallies?

if bush get's reelected, i'm going to go live with aunt Elsa in switzerland, american hater or not.

I bet Elsa would actually get the biggest kick out of you, LJ. I'll write and tell her to fix up her guest room just in case. I'm sure she wouldn't mind. She'd probably just pretend that you are Canadian or something.

cowhead · 07-12-2004, 11:47 PM

oh geez... yeah I heard about all this at work today.. I like the Idea of pre-dating the elections.. heh that'd screw everybodies plans up.. and yes, it does seem that the best thing in the world for Osama and company is to keep bush in office... he generates more propaganda for their cause than anything. ANYTHING in the past oh.. 50 years? I know we can't function as an isolationist country.. but do you think we (and by we I don't mean me

) ) could keep our dirty little fingers out of the till? I mean how many bazillions of dollars does a person need?.. yeah I'm working class sure.. and I value the money I do make.. and the entire concept of gaining so much more wealth (both fiscal and physical) that you could never ever spend it all... is just silly... short sighted and to some extent morally wrong (in the case of Bill Gates.. there was an article the other month, that if Bill Gates were a country he would come in at number 52 in the world...fine sure great, and he does donate alot to charity..and he is not in a political office.. so I don't really care.. but it's nuts.. and NO I'm not saying 'lets tax the shit out of him or take it away.. just a bad attempt to explai my point)..

ANYWAY! what I really wanted to say in this post is that a friend of mine and I have a bet that something is going to happen in late september early october.. (more than likely another 'terror event' or perhaps Pakistan will get lippy.. or Bin Ladin will be 'found' )

http://www.octobersurprise.net/phpbb/index.php

and it seems we're not alone in that thought line...

the other thing.. is this administration really getting that afraid of losing power (get me my tinfoil hat!) and there is that whole Bush I new world order thing.. they're close to implimenting it...

the last thing! ( I promise) what needs to happen if bush wins.. everyone who voted against him needs to hop in their car/bus/plane and we make a march on washington..30 million or more angry people would be something I think they need to see... that this shit is NOT flying and although open revolution is out of the question (as the civilian population is seriously out gunned (and no... I'm not saying an RPG in every pot...) it's not really an option.. anyway... thanks for listen to my little rant

07-11-2004, 08:04 PM	#1
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Suspending Elections I know I'm cynical but... U.S. counterterrorism officials are looking at an emergency proposal on the legal steps needed to postpone the presidential election in case of such an attack, Newsweek reported on Sunday. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

07-11-2004, 10:10 PM	#3
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	Fear appears to be W's ally. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

07-12-2004, 02:22 AM	#5
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	If someone told you in 2000 that the reichstag would be smoking by now, what would you have said? Amazing how things change. Looks like bush's closest political allay is Osama, he's the thing most likely to keep him in power. That's what I call an unholy alliance, a fundie president who beleives he's fighting god's war being kept in power by a fundie who think he's fighting gods war. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain Last edited by jaguar; 07-12-2004 at 02:24 AM.

07-12-2004, 08:59 AM	#7
Cyber Wolf As stable as a ring of PU-239 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: On a huge rock covered in water, highly advanced moss and 7 billion parasites Posts: 1,264	Right. In terms of the election itself, what's the absolute worst that could happen if terrorists attack polling stations on Election Day? The votes from those stations won't be counted. How many thousands (hundred thousands?)of polling stations are there across the US? Not to mention absentee ballots and the like? The terrorists would have to hit a LOT of stations in the 12 or so hours that elections are open. And even if they did, news of a station being hit would travel REAL fast and every other station in the US would be on guard. If it is Al Qaeda, then it's known they don't like to go after well guarded targets, more trouble and less chance of success. Doing anything to move, postpone or otherwise alter the normal flow of the elections would only bolster the terrorists' morale. Now, what if we left the elections alone and went on through as planned? If a few sites are attacked, should be totally shut down and cower like a bad puppy looking at a raised rolled up newspaper? Or should we take what votes do get through and use them? Besides, in the normal course of an election, it's nothing new for votes to be lost, forged and mistallied. In a given year, there's plenty of votes that either don't get in or don't get counted correctly. I shouldn't have to remind anyone of the absolute tripe that was 2000's election process. If an attack should happen, acknowledge it, yes. Mourn what losses occur, yes. But don't STOP. Keep MOVING. Take what you've got and GO. [offtopic]Also, along the lines of letting go and moving on, how long are flags supposed to be kept at half-mast for the death of a president? Around here, there's still flags being raised a half-mast and I can't figure out if there's a time period for it or if whoever's responsible just forgot/is lazy?[/offtopic] __________________ "I don't see what's so triffic about creating people as people and then getting' upset 'cos they act like people." ~Adam Young, Good Omens "I don't see why it matters what is written. Not when it's about people. It can always be crossed out." ~Adam Young, Good Omens

07-12-2004, 09:39 AM	#9
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	i'm a bit worried that this is just the seed of something to come. So this gets pishawed, and this election comes and goes, and sanity forbid, GWB gets re-elected.....NEXT time, this comes up again, and maybe, just maybe they sneak it through. that's when the shit hits the fan. and why is it automatically we should postpone the election? why not preempt it? do we think the terrorists can't postpone their attacks? and like CW said, if they wanted to effect our elections, they'd pretty much have to invade us full scale. duh. this is really fucked up. and jinx tells me, although i haven't seen it, that we've discussed "free speech zones" at bush rallies, and people are being arrested for adverse signage at those rallies? if bush get's reelected, i'm going to go live with aunt Elsa in switzerland, american hater or not. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

07-12-2004, 02:50 AM	#6
marichiko Guest Posts: n/a	I get this image in my mind of God with long white hair and a white beard, sitting on a golden throne in heaven. He reads the latest reports from earth handed to him by a worried angel and gets a really upset look on his face. "OK, send 'em in now," He says. Jesus and Mohammed approach with hang dog looks on their faces. "Can't you two get ANYTHING right?" He asks. "I said 'Peace on earth' NOT 'the earth in peices!"

07-12-2004, 09:34 AM	#8
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	[offtopic]Also, along the lines of letting go and moving on, how long are flags supposed to be kept at half-mast for the death of a president? Around here, there's still flags being raised a half-mast and I can't figure out if there's a time period for it or if whoever's responsible just forgot/is lazy?[/offtopic] Bush declared the period to be 30 days in this case.

07-12-2004, 10:12 AM	#10
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	1) i don't agree with postponing the elections, but from a point of view it does make some sense. 2) i don't think they are talking about postponing to prevent further casualties in the event of an attack. the fear is probably more along the lines of preventing a repeat of spain's election. a couple hundred people die and the election goes in an absolutely unexpected direction. i personally think that if their was a pre-election attack in america it would actually shore up gwb's #'s just because of the collective personality of america. ( america - "you attacked us??? we'll put big flags in our car windows, attack a few gas station attendants, and nuke ya back to the stoneage". spain - "you attacked us??? we'll hand power to the guy who will pull us out so you won't be mad at us anymore"." that is obviously oversimplified, but you get the point. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-12-2004, 12:21 PM	#13
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I think Jaguar is right on the money. The terrorists want Bush in office. He makes recruiting new terrorists very easy. I'm not sure if a terrorist act just before the election hurts Bush or helps him. I think a lot of it depends on how Kerry spins the attack. If Kerry has a spine, he will say that Bush was unable to prevent the attack and even helped to cause it to happen with his heavy handedness around the world. If Kerry doesn't have a spine, he will say that we all need to come together, and that he supports the President. Bush would win in that situation. If anyone calls for postponing the elections because of terrorism, I fear that will be the beginning of the end of this country.

07-12-2004, 11:47 PM	#15
cowhead halve your cake and eat it too. Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Georgia.. by way of Lawrence Kansas Posts: 1,359	oh geez... yeah I heard about all this at work today.. I like the Idea of pre-dating the elections.. heh that'd screw everybodies plans up.. and yes, it does seem that the best thing in the world for Osama and company is to keep bush in office... he generates more propaganda for their cause than anything. ANYTHING in the past oh.. 50 years? I know we can't function as an isolationist country.. but do you think we (and by we I don't mean me ) ) could keep our dirty little fingers out of the till? I mean how many bazillions of dollars does a person need?.. yeah I'm working class sure.. and I value the money I do make.. and the entire concept of gaining so much more wealth (both fiscal and physical) that you could never ever spend it all... is just silly... short sighted and to some extent morally wrong (in the case of Bill Gates.. there was an article the other month, that if Bill Gates were a country he would come in at number 52 in the world...fine sure great, and he does donate alot to charity..and he is not in a political office.. so I don't really care.. but it's nuts.. and NO I'm not saying 'lets tax the shit out of him or take it away.. just a bad attempt to explai my point).. ANYWAY! what I really wanted to say in this post is that a friend of mine and I have a bet that something is going to happen in late september early october.. (more than likely another 'terror event' or perhaps Pakistan will get lippy.. or Bin Ladin will be 'found' ) http://www.octobersurprise.net/phpbb/index.php and it seems we're not alone in that thought line... the other thing.. is this administration really getting that afraid of losing power (get me my tinfoil hat!) and there is that whole Bush I new world order thing.. they're close to implimenting it... the last thing! ( I promise) what needs to happen if bush wins.. everyone who voted against him needs to hop in their car/bus/plane and we make a march on washington..30 million or more angry people would be something I think they need to see... that this shit is NOT flying and although open revolution is out of the question (as the civilian population is seriously out gunned (and no... I'm not saying an RPG in every pot...) it's not really an option.. anyway... thanks for listen to my little rant __________________ no my child.. this is not my desire..I'm digging for fire.

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