The Way I Figure It

[Griff]

I've changed my mind on the draft question. I thought that reinstituting the draft was a non-starter, but I've been listening to Kerry and the bottom line is he will have to have a draft to do Iraq his way. Bush is playing things closer to his vest, pretending we can win Iraq with our present committment. So now I'm thinking that Kerry=LBJ and Bush=nutball. Every election I question whether I should vote at all because it lends credibility to government to have folks show up. The last thing these two guys need is credibility.

[Happy Monkey]

On the other hand, Kerry is explicitly saying that he will not reinstitute the draft, and Bush is not.

[Undertoad]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0040907-6.html

Q Mr. President, if the war on terrorism continues, do you feel that there will be a need for the draft? And do you want to start the draft again?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, first of all, the war on terror will continue. It's going to take awhile. And, no, we don't need a draft. What we need to do is -- don't worry about it. What we need to do is to make sure our troops are well-paid, and well-housed, and well-equipped. (Applause.)

And that's why -- and that's why over the last three-and-a-half years we've increased military pay by 21 percent. And that's why our housing is better. (Applause.) We've improved housing. You see, you keep a soldier in the military by appealing to his family or her family. When the housing is good, when the health is good, they stay. When the pay is decent, they stay.

And so, therefore, in making a volunteer army work, it's best to treat our soldiers with the best we possibly can. And we made great progress in doing just that. No, I'm -- we don't need the draft. We don't need a draft at all.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Bush

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0040907-6.html
And, no, we don't need (present tense) a draft. ... No, I'm -- we don't need (present tense) the draft. We don't need (present tense) a draft at all.

Originally Posted by Edwards

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040915/D854BH0O1.html
There will be (future tense) no draft when John Kerry is president.

At this point, unless you count forced enlistment extensions, we don't need a draft. That's all he said, and then went into a memorized tangential point.

[busterb]

Yea right when the NG troops all bail out. Then what?

[xoxoxoBruce]

make sure our troops are well-paid, and well-housed, and well-equipped

I metioned in TW's thread, the Marine I've been writing to in Fallujah, came home. After a two day convoy to Kuwait and 22 air hours to Camp Pendleton, they were told where to bed down. You've got brand new beds, men!
The trouble is the new beds were still unassembled in boxes. Gives a whole new meaning to "make your bed".

I doubt the draft is coming back,.......until they need it.

[Undertoad]

*shrug* If you want to put it that way, Kerry has failed to address future Bible restrictions in West Virginia. It's just semantics.

[Kitsune]

Is a draft needed for Iraq? With a loss of "only" 1,000 troops over the course of the war, no. This is no where near as bad a vietnam.

Throw in Iran/Syria/North Korea, however, and it will be a completely different story.

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's 1,000 dead, don't forget the wounded and even more, disgusted. But, we've still got a ton of soldiers in Europe, don't we?

BTW, housing sucks - ever lived in a barracks? Medical care for dependents has gone down the shithole, the comissary prices on food are now equivalent to what you'd pay at Walmart, and the PX prices stateside are no special bargain, either. Cigarettes were still prety cheap last time I checked, so I guess you can always smoke yourself to death if the enemy doesn't get you first. Base pay for E1's and E2's, regular military on active duty (the guys who get to be cannon fodder) ranges from aprox $14,000 to $16,000/year. As usual, Bush didn't have the faintest idea of what he was talking about in the citation listed above. Will we need a draft if things continue to heat up? You tell me.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by marichiko

BTW, housing sucks - ever lived in a barracks? Medical care for dependents has gone down the shithole, the comissary prices on food are now equivalent to what you'd pay at Walmart, and the PX prices stateside are no special bargain, either.

marichiko- turn off gomer pyle and see if you can look at a modern military base.
the norms will be different based on the branch of service, but at most bases, the majority of junior enlisted have better living conditions than junior officers did 20 years ago. at most AF bases and many army posts, having a roommate is an unusual annoyance. having 2 is unheard of. yes, there are exceptions, but that is the reality. family housing is being massively overhauled again. (there were a lot of upgrades in the early '90's). enlisted and officer clubs are onbase for cheap entertainment. the messhalls are still open for at least 3 squares/day and it isn't the food they were eating 20 years ago, which is part of why the prices at AAFES locations don't seem as cheap to you anymore. dining halls and the shopping centers are lumped together in a single "0 gain/loss budget" the slightly higher shopping prices pay for better food, better buildings, better R&R opportunities for the troops.

and the biggest benefit of the commisary and BX/PX system are still in place - NO TAX, including liquor, tobacco, and gasoline.

this ain't yer daddy's military.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

*shrug* If you want to put it that way, Kerry has failed to address future Bible restrictions in West Virginia. It's just semantics.

Perhaps. But Kerry hasn't been asked "Will you ban the Bible?" and answered "We don't need to. I've supported churches before."

[Undertoad]

Come on, it's just semantics, HM. And it's a flat-out loser, because the actual proposal for a draft was presented and supported by the house Democrats. Rangel blew it for the party and I bet he is unrepentant.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Every election I question whether I should vote at all because it lends credibility to government to have folks show up. The last thing these two guys need is credibility.

Credibility? We don't need no stinking credibitity! We got the authority. We got the police & military. We got God. We got your money.
Screw credibility, we only worry about votes for the other guy, but Diabold is working on that.

[Happy Monkey]

Political speech is semantics. If a politician doesn't say yes or no to a yes or no question, then you have to parse it to figure out exactly what they said.