VOTE DEAN

[ScottSolomon]

Hey, I know that a lot of you may be libertarians and some of your may be Bushwackers, but I think that you really should give Howard Dean a few mental cycles of consideration for President.

Bush is a liar, a thug, and a bully - and he is putting us into a really bad situation. The other shoe has yet to drop in Iraq, and the Shias look like they are not goint to be happy with an American secular government. Our schools are closing while Bush is giving a tax cut to people that are not suffering - under the guise of creating jobs. Bush has loaded the courts with Republican idealogues. The environment is suffering badly. We have no national policy toward global warming. As if all of that was not enough, Patriot Act 2 is in the pipeline - and it will allow the government to arbitrarily remove citizenship from people.

Bush is scary - and his America is downright depressing.

This is why I think we really need someone like Dean. He is smart, he is willing to stand up for what he believes in, and he is a pro-business populist.

If you can;t consider Dean, please consider any Democrat - even if a Ficus plant runs. I don't think America can survive another 4 years of Bush.

http://www.deanforAmerica.com

[elSicomoro]

And he wastes no time in plugging Howie.

(Scott is a childhood friend of mine from St. Louis.)

[juju]

So, what's Dr. Dean's position on the DMCA?

[ScottSolomon]

Sorry about the multipost. I had not intended on advertising Dean, but I was just reading a blog - got a bit miffed - and decided to go on a tirade. It was a momentary spat of poor web etiquette. Please forgive me - where are my manners?

As far as Dean and the DMCA, I don't know if he has a position. Since he was a state governor ( Vermont ) his position about the DMCA may never have been pertinent.

I don't think very many people know or understand the full ramifications of the DMCA. I also think a lot of people have focused more concern on things like the USA PATRIOT Act. and Patriot 2. I would be interested in seeing his position vis-a-vis a consumer's bill of rights - copyright/fair use issues - but I have not seen any position statements on his web site. I will research it, though. I am going to go to a meetup with other Dean supporters in a few days - if Dean's stance is unclear, I'll raise the question to his campaign representative.

I would not be surprised if he is pro DMCA, though. I think this is primarily a generational disparity in relative importance. These guys are not big techies, they may have limited computer experience. They may not understand the real ramifications of the law - and RIAA lobbiests are more than happy to fill that information void.

[Griff]

My Step Brother in Law, a NYC transplant in Vermont, (is there a simple way of saying that) is a huge Dean guy. My SBiL is also an avowed communist, seriously, great guy but he learned nothing from the last century. We do know that neither party should ever be allowed to hold the Executive and Legislative concurrently so if Dean will promise constant bickering and no actual agenda success, I'd give him a Repugnant Congress. I've been waiting for a Dem to vote for but only Dean and Kasinich are running and opposed the war. I assume Dean has big plans for expanding government but we'll wait and see.

[Griff]

T$ mentioned somwhere else that he could see a Dem running successfully against Pat/Pat2. I'd like someone to try but I don't think the electorate gives a crap. 911 created a nationalist furor like I've never seen here... we're screwed

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by ScottSolomon
Sorry about the multipost. I had not intended on advertising Dean, but I was just reading a blog - got a bit miffed - and decided to go on a tirade. It was a momentary spat of poor web etiquette. Please forgive me - where are my manners?

Nah, I was just giving you shit.

Griff, sadly you may be right. Not to call most Americans outright stupid, but they can be incredibly ignorant at times.

[wolf]

Welcome scott, any friend of syc's, etc. ...

(although I do notice he ONLY mentioned you as a childhood friend ... does that mean that as an adult he regards with with unmatched enmity, so great that he can't discuss it in an open forum?)

[elSicomoro]

Nah...before yesterday, I hadn't talked to Scott in at least 12 or 13 years. His mom and my mom went to high school together, and have been friends ever since (30 some-odd years). His family moved to SC in the early 90s. He and I got to talking last night and we wound up talking about politics. I don't give out the Cellar addy too much, but it's right up his alley.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Syc, are you starting a gang too?

[slang]

Originally posted by ScottSolomon
The other shoe has yet to drop in Iraq, and the Shias look like they are not goint to be happy with an American secular government.

*yawn* (slang thinks to himself: hhmm, another anti-bush dem that still *hopes* for some monumental disaster in the Iraq war)


Hello Scott. Welcome aboard. It's nice to know that Syc *had* friends some time ago.

I think we are screwed with either party candidates. I voted for W, would do it again, but he does seriously piss me off sometimes. It's been my opinion that we should keep the dems out of the Federal gov't. That doesnt mean I love the Reps, but the chances of a Lib candidate getting elected are about the same as me throwing this building over my left shoulder in the next ten seconds.

When I rule the planet, the USC will once again be in effect and you'll all be in a world'a'hurt from the changes. Reps and Dems (and everyone else for that matter).

slang vote for survey: Bush *isn't* Gore or Clinton(s) and thats a good start.

[juju]

Slang, this isn't horse races. You're not supposed to pick a winner! You're supposed to vote for the candidate you think would do the best job! :)

[xoxoxoBruce]

You're not supposed to pick a winner!

You sure as hell better, if you're betting the farm.

I voted for W, would do it again,

Sounds like that damn gun lobby at work. I don't think of it as voting for W, more like voting against Gore.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Syc, are you starting a gang too?

We're merely casing the joint right now before I launch a full-blown takeover...it's been 2 years in planning and now it's coming to fruition.

I sure as hell don't want anything bad to happen over there...we're already Head Assholes of the World as it is...no sense in adding insult to injury.

[ScottSolomon]

I voted for W, would do it again

I find this an odd statment for a libertarian voter. But I guess part of your rationale is that Rethugnicans shrink the government while Dems grow the government. This useful myth is sort of akin to the "liberal media". I think the Reagan administration came up with these nice useful myths, and they have worked effectively to limit the scope of any debate and reflect poorly on anyone with a leftist view for 20 odd years.

Bush grew the size of the federal government larger than it has ever been. We are jumping into a pile of debt that is growing beyond our control. We are taking on added expenses of maintaining a vast military machine in multiple war theaters. We are passing through a tax cut that will focus 60% of the tax break to about 5 % of the population.

And you think this falls into the libertarian ethos?!

What about the libertarian's desire to limit government intrusion into private life? Patriot Act effectively gutted the bill of rights. Partiot 2 will allow the AG to renounce a suspect's citizenship - stripping them of all legal rights.

We are not trying to avoid foreign entanglements in any respect. We are growing more imperial by the day. We are destroying our international reputation. Our economy is in the toilet.

And you would vote for Bush again? He does not even take responsibility for any of this. In a speech today, he blamed the poor economy for the war with Iraq - but said nothing about the overall effects of his foreign policy and previous tax cut.

Bush won't admit that he cited forged documents as evidence of Iraq's wmds - and he won;t admit that this war was unnecessary.

Bush is the antithesis of libertarianism, I really think you should reconsider your position. Of course, you have every right to support Bush. If you do, I would just like to know, why?

I am not trying to be a jerk. I am just curious about your point of view.