Police don't have to knock, CNN article

[Kitsune]

Shoot 'em.

Investigators say Braunstein dressed as a New York firefighter October 31, set two small fires in the hallway outside the woman's apartment, and then told her he was there to investigate.

The woman said he then put a gun to the her head, bound, drugged her and molested her for more than 12 hours.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Shoot 'em.

On Halloween? What if the perp is drunk and naked?. :-)

Of course Braunstein was home free, only the criminals and the cops have guns in NYC.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

Unless it's Halloween

Dressed in a tuxedo imitating John Travolta from Saturday Night Fever...

I see no crime.

[MaggieL]

o/~"Stayin' alive, stayin' alive..."o/~ ....oops.

It was an accident... just like the one that almost happened at my house.
My back room was mostly underground, had a small window that was very high. I had a small bookshelf with some comics and action figures on it in that room.
I was working nights and asleep and heard glass break. Got my gun, walked into the room in time to see a stick opening to latch to the window, pressing myself against the wall feeling VERY lucky not to have been seen I waited... slowly the window was haltingly lifted. They were being very careful not to be heard. Slowly a blond head appeared, I placed the gun to the temple, grabbed a handful of hair and screamed into their ear just after cocking the gun. "MOVE & DIE. BOTH EMPTY HANDS INTO THIS HOUSE NOW! BREATH FUNNY AND DIE, THINK FUNNY AND DIE!" They were on their side and I made them grab the wall in front of them as they started to cry. I realized something. It was a fucking kid. Here this idiot was breaking into someone's house risking their life and I looked over my shoulder and knew... it was for the comics or figures. "Get the fuck out of here"
I ran across the house, caught him and made him take me to his house. Unloaded my gun on the way.
Knocked on the door, explained what happened finished by handing his dad my gun "this was cocked, loaded with hollow-points at your son's temple not five minutes ago... had I been someone else, because I never saw his face, someone more frightened, someone with no training, he would have been dead now. You need to have a talk with your son."
So, I know how easy it would be to make a mistake.... I am not talking about just unloading willy-nilly... there are idiots out there, I know. I had a similar thing happen while hunting... you think this kid was stupid, ha!
However, had I shot him... I would have felt bad, but like a murderer, no, not at all.
If someone enters your residence unannounced, you must assume they are armed and there to harm you. It is the only ethical thing to do.
My family's welfare is more important than the rights of those who would come into my home as a criminal. I do not have the luxury to test the waters of our safety with my life just to give someone the benefit of the doubt because they will not give me that opportunity if they are armed.
If they are in my home unannounced, they are armed and there to harm my family, period.
Taking that chance is unethical, and intentionally taking chances with my families safety. It is wrong for anyone to knowingly do it IMO.

I need to find the article... here in Winter Haven a man was in the back yard of another. He tried to break-into that man's home earlier and could not.
They were arguing, the man in the back yard was unarmed (but the man inside did not know this) at one point in the argument the would-be burglar said "Man, I'm going to kill you", the home owner shot and killed him.
He went home from the police station that night.
This was before the FL Castle Doctrine.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Fire, alarms and smoke may do it too... she's arguing just to do it.

I'm not the one with the puppy pictures...whatever *that* meant.

Depending on how it starts, firefighters are often the ones who alert the occupants of a building that there's a fire.

My point is that as a firearms user you are responsible for identifying your target and what lies beyond it. Shooting cops is simply not usually a good way to enhance your future prospects, no matter how principled a move it felt like at the time. The onus will be on you in court to demonstrate that your actions were reasonable. And if you're opposed to no-knock warrant executions, announcing a policy of shooting unidentified intruders claiming to be cops may not be the best way to discourage them.

Of course, if something --like a short life expectancy-- has diminished your sense of responsibility to the point of "they'll never take me alive", I can't speak to that.


Edit to note that this was posted before I read rkz's post #80, which certainly puts a different light on things.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

...at one point in the argument the would-be burglar said "Man, I'm going to kill you", the home owner shot and killed him.

And *that* is a righteous shoot. The shooter had a "reasonable belief that he was in danger of death or grevious bodily harm". If someone proclaims deadly intent, you'd be wise to beleive them and act accordingly.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

It was an accident... just like the one that almost happened at my house.

That's a hell of a story...but I don't think I'd hand my gun over to anybody, much less a burglar's father. Glad it worked out OK. Hope the kid never did it again.

Originally Posted by MaggieL

And *that* is a righteous shoot. The shooter had a "reasonable belief that he was in danger of death or grevious bodily harm". If someone proclaims deadly intent, you'd be wise to beleive them and act accordingly.

Breaking into your home is that proclamation.

Originally Posted by MaggieL

That's a hell of a story...but I don't think I'd hand my gun over to anybody, much less a burglar's father.

It was empty. The kid was about ten. It was ok, he was not mad at me... you had to be there.
Edit- My biggest fear was that he was going to hospitalize the kid "teaching him a lesson".... he was terrified in a way I have never seen anyone. But being a father, I cannot imagine being in his shoes, not something I would want to experience.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

It was empty. The kid was about ten. It was ok, he was not mad at me... you had to be there.

No doubt. And I did pick up that you'd unloaded the gun.

But parents can be very strange when their kids are/have been in danger; you could easily have ended up facing one who would decide it was your fault his kid was breaking into your place. At which point I wouldn't have wanted to have already disarmed myself

But as you say, you had to be there.

He was not getting it. He was in shock, as a first responder, I saw it right away.... I talked about something else for a second and asked if we could come inside and sit in the A/C.
Then I handed him the gun, something tangible so he could "hold on" to it.
Then he got it. I thought he was going to faint... not being dramatic, I asked if he needed to put his head down.
Took the gun back and then we were able to discuss what happened. He kept going back to an accusation that the window was open and I kept had to correct him until I offered to take him to the window to show him the stick and broken window and ask him to get his son in the room and ask him what happened... he then was ok with the truth. I assume.
I don't know how he handled it with his kid really... was a terrible day for me, but I felt for that family. They were very poor, I remember not having many toys and wanted to give him something, but would not reward such behavior.
I just hope he learned that he almost died and not that he got away with it... could have gone either way.