Ending God's Tax Exempt Status - Page 29

Happy Monkey · 08-31-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

It's still disproportionate punishment though, care to try that logic in areas of justice other then traffic fines?

Sure. Any sort of fine. No reason to restrict it to traffic.

And it isn't disproportionate, it's just more proportionate than you're used to.

yesman065 · 08-31-2007, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queequeger

I am, actually.

Last I checked there buddy Hawaii is still part of the US.

Quote:

Originally Posted by queequeger

The rest of the world doesn't want to live here, some people do. To say that immigration means we're BETTER than everyone else is absurd, and frankly it's bordering on jingoism. We're not a BAD country, I would never go that far.

Um, lemme think here - If other people WANT to come here so fucking bad that they break the law, then we must be at least a LITTLE better than where ever they are comin from.

Geez and I'm so relieved that "we aren't a BAD country" in your view - Whew I feel so much better. Thanks.

9th Engineer · 08-31-2007, 03:11 PM

Even a progressive tax system unequalizes a population if you really think about it. Let's use Joe Average as an example. He and his wife make a total of $47k annually, which would put them in the second tax bracket at 15%. To simplify lets just say their tax contribution is 47000*0.15=$7050 every year. His highschool buddy Harry Surgeon is making $600k, putting him in the highest bracket of 35%. Harry is sending off 600000*0.35=$210000 a year to Uncle Sam, that's about 30x more then Joe. Now enter Fred CEO, he's raking in a comfortable $2.7M off his firm, and is of course also in the highest bracket. That's (2.7*10^6)*0.35=$945000 in cash for our boys in Washington, almost a full 135x more then Joe. Without a stepped system those numbers would of course still be high, but only ~12.5x and 57.5x respectively. It exacerbates the problem of unequal government because certain classes of people are worth the equivalent of hundreds of their fellow citizens. While I'm certainly not claiming that doing away with tiered systems would solve this, it's still a big part of why certain interests are paid attention to immediately while others languish for years.

yesman065 · 08-31-2007, 03:20 PM

Where do the deductions fit into your model?

piercehawkeye45 · 08-31-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065

Um, lemme think here - If other people WANT to come here so fucking bad that they break the law, then we must be at least a LITTLE better than where ever they are comin from.

Oh please, you know that they would never come here if they had no other choice. Living as an illegal here is a little better than living in extreme poverty in Mexico. That really isn't a tough standard to beat. You can't say you are the best chef because I prefer your food over shit.

queequeger · 08-31-2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065

Last I checked there buddy Hawaii is still part of the US.

Read the rest of the post, man.

tw · 08-31-2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

My Maserati
Does one eighty-five
I lost my license
Now I don't drive

I have a limo
Ride in the back
I lock the doors
In case I'm attacked

I don't see where a montary fine is even relevant. The problem was solved. He no longer does the driving.

Aliantha · 09-01-2007, 12:09 AM

queer...I've had this discussion on this forum a number of times before. In my personal opinion, the US doesn't have anything compared to Australia, but I'm pretty sure almost everyone feels that way about their place of birth.

I can say this though, I definitely don't want to move to the US. I doubt that I ever would. In my opinion, Australians in general have one of the most enviable lifestyles in the world.

Why would i want to pass that up?

yesman065 · 09-01-2007, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Oh please, you know that they would never come here if they had no other choice. Living as an illegal here is a little better than living in extreme poverty in Mexico. That really isn't a tough standard to beat. You can't say you are the best chef because I prefer your food over shit.

Although I never said it, yes I do believe we are the best. But my comment was directed specifically to queequeger's post. Not sure I see where your food reference fits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by queequeger

Read the rest of the post, man.

Gotcha, I missed the part in another country - maybe England...my bad.

queequeger · 09-01-2007, 12:54 AM

Hahahaha, Aliantha you've got an extraneous 'r' there at the end of my name. I actually want to live in Australia for a while, maybe that's one of the next stops after the UK if I can convince the wifely one.

And yesman, the food reference implies that paupers (poor mexicans) choosing a slightly better lifestyle (illegal immigration) doesn't say that their minor step up is all that great, it's just better than their last situation.

yesman065 · 09-01-2007, 01:02 AM

Thanks for making my point - If coming here was only marginally better than where they currently are, than it wouldn't be worth uprooting their family, taking only what they can carry, traveling a great distance, sneaking into another freakin country, breaking the law..... just to get into a little better situation? C'mon we are infinitely better than where they are coming from and you know it. Thats the reason they want to come here.

queequeger · 09-01-2007, 01:40 AM

Correction, a legal citizen with an education is better off(though 'infinitely' might be pushing it)... an illegal citizen who has to choose between making less than minimum wage and putting himself at far greater health risks, who cannot hold a license or vote and is completely at the mercy of the community is only slighty better off.

Luckily most of us don't know what it's like to be at the bottom, but sometimes the difference between not eating regularly and eating mcdonalds is pretty important. That doesn't mean they have it great or even good.

Aliantha · 09-01-2007, 01:47 AM

Sorry quee...i always think queer when i see your name even though I know there's no 'r' where i put it.

I don't mean anything by it though. I'll try and leave the 'r' off from now on and just call you quee.

queequeger · 09-01-2007, 01:52 AM

If I had a nickel for every time someone's called me "Queerwhatever," I'd have a lot of nickels.

Queequeg's a character in a Herman Melville book, if you didn't know that. If you did I look like an ass now.

Aliantha · 09-01-2007, 01:56 AM

you might look like an ass anyway, but not to me.

08-31-2007, 03:11 PM	#423
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	Even a progressive tax system unequalizes a population if you really think about it. Let's use Joe Average as an example. He and his wife make a total of $47k annually, which would put them in the second tax bracket at 15%. To simplify lets just say their tax contribution is 470000.15=$7050 every year. His highschool buddy Harry Surgeon is making $600k, putting him in the highest bracket of 35%. Harry is sending off 6000000.35=$210000 a year to Uncle Sam, that's about 30x more then Joe. Now enter Fred CEO, he's raking in a comfortable $2.7M off his firm, and is of course also in the highest bracket. That's (2.710^6)0.35=$945000 in cash for our boys in Washington, almost a full 135x more then Joe. Without a stepped system those numbers would of course still be high, but only ~12.5x and 57.5x respectively. It exacerbates the problem of unequal government because certain classes of people are worth the equivalent of hundreds of their fellow citizens. While I'm certainly not claiming that doing away with tiered systems would solve this, it's still a big part of why certain interests are paid attention to immediately while others languish for years. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

09-01-2007, 12:09 AM	#428
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	queer...I've had this discussion on this forum a number of times before. In my personal opinion, the US doesn't have anything compared to Australia, but I'm pretty sure almost everyone feels that way about their place of birth. I can say this though, I definitely don't want to move to the US. I doubt that I ever would. In my opinion, Australians in general have one of the most enviable lifestyles in the world. Why would i want to pass that up? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

09-01-2007, 12:54 AM	#430
queequeger Hypercharismatic Telepathical Knight Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The armpit of the Universe... Augusta, GA Posts: 365	Hahahaha, Aliantha you've got an extraneous 'r' there at the end of my name. I actually want to live in Australia for a while, maybe that's one of the next stops after the UK if I can convince the wifely one. And yesman, the food reference implies that paupers (poor mexicans) choosing a slightly better lifestyle (illegal immigration) doesn't say that their minor step up is all that great, it's just better than their last situation. __________________ Hoocha, hoocha, hoocha... lobster.

09-01-2007, 01:40 AM	#432
queequeger Hypercharismatic Telepathical Knight Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The armpit of the Universe... Augusta, GA Posts: 365	Correction, a legal citizen with an education is better off(though 'infinitely' might be pushing it)... an illegal citizen who has to choose between making less than minimum wage and putting himself at far greater health risks, who cannot hold a license or vote and is completely at the mercy of the community is only slighty better off. Luckily most of us don't know what it's like to be at the bottom, but sometimes the difference between not eating regularly and eating mcdonalds is pretty important. That doesn't mean they have it great or even good. __________________ Hoocha, hoocha, hoocha... lobster.

09-01-2007, 01:47 AM	#433
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Sorry quee...i always think queer when i see your name even though I know there's no 'r' where i put it. I don't mean anything by it though. I'll try and leave the 'r' off from now on and just call you quee. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

08-31-2007, 03:20 PM	#424
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	Where do the deductions fit into your model?

09-01-2007, 01:02 AM	#431
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	Thanks for making my point - If coming here was only marginally better than where they currently are, than it wouldn't be worth uprooting their family, taking only what they can carry, traveling a great distance, sneaking into another freakin country, breaking the law..... just to get into a little better situation? C'mon we are infinitely better than where they are coming from and you know it. Thats the reason they want to come here.

09-01-2007, 01:52 AM	#434
queequeger Hypercharismatic Telepathical Knight Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The armpit of the Universe... Augusta, GA Posts: 365	If I had a nickel for every time someone's called me "Queerwhatever," I'd have a lot of nickels. Queequeg's a character in a Herman Melville book, if you didn't know that. If you did I look like an ass now. __________________ Hoocha, hoocha, hoocha... lobster.

09-01-2007, 01:56 AM	#435
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	you might look like an ass anyway, but not to me. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

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