The Triangle Shirtwaist Fire

[Pete Zicato]

100 years ago this Friday.

I don't think this could happen today. So what do you think the difference is - better laws governing businesses, more altruistic owners, something else?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Pete Zicato

100 years ago this Friday.

I don't think this could happen today. So what do you think the difference is - better laws governing businesses, more altruistic owners, something else?

Altruistic owners? Not.

Social safety nets. Citizens feel that they can leave an unsafe job without fearing that they won't be able to provide for their family.

BTW, 14 American workers die every day.

[wolf]

It can, and does happen.

Station Nightclub, West Warwick, Rhode Island.
(siswolf lived around the corner from this place, less than 1/2 mile away. Several times when visiting her I had considered going to check it out. I also have met the Rhode Island CISM coordinator)

republica Cromagnon, Buenos Aires, Argentina

And countless others.

Poor fire control systems, confusing floor plans, flammable decorations, and "security" involving chaining doors shut to prevent people from sneaking in.

[Cloud]

this incident specifically gave rise to the unions, which did a lot in terms of protecting workers' rights and improving conditions.

I, too, thought of the nightclub fires in recent years. No unions for partygoers, unfortunately.

[Pete Zicato]

Originally Posted by wolf

It can, and does happen.

Oh I understand that fires can and do happen. But I think that the work condition circumstances in the Shirtwaist incident are a lot less likely today.

[wolf]

There are plenty of sweatshops still operating in most major cities, and many of them have the same sorts of conditions that lead to the Triangle Shirtwaist fire, including the poor ventilation and locked exits.

[Cloud]

fire codes have improved considerably and regulated more closely also

[Pete Zicato]

Originally Posted by wolf

There are plenty of sweatshops still operating in most major cities, and many of them have the same sorts of conditions that lead to the Triangle Shirtwaist fire, including the poor ventilation and locked exits.

Ok so we haven't done as well as I thought.

Does anyone still want to argue that we don't need to regulate business?

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by wolf

There are plenty of sweatshops still operating in most major cities, and many of them have the same sorts of conditions that lead to the Triangle Shirtwaist fire, including the poor ventilation and locked exits.

Poor ventilation and panicked crowds that clog exits, absolutely. But exits locked from the inside? I was pretty sure that nowadays any commercial building has the kind that automatically lock from the outside, with the big pushbar to open from the inside. It's standard building code.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by wolf

There are plenty of sweatshops still operating in most major cities, and many of them have the same sorts of conditions that lead to the Triangle Shirtwaist fire, including the poor ventilation and locked exits.

Especially for undocumented/illegal worker/aliens.

Originally Posted by Cloud

fire codes have improved considerably and regulated more closely also

OSHA saves lives. And fingers, and eyes....

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Poor ventilation and panicked crowds that clog exits, absolutely. But exits locked from the inside? I was pretty sure that nowadays any commercial building has the kind that automatically lock from the outside, with the big pushbar to open from the inside. It's standard building code.

Sometimes, they get chained, so that partiers can't open a door to let in other who avoid paying the cover charge.

[Crimson Ghost]

Originally Posted by wolf

There are plenty of sweatshops still operating in most major cities, and many of them have the same sorts of conditions that lead to the Triangle Shirtwaist fire, including the poor ventilation and locked exits.

True.
Just ask Kathie Lee Gifford.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Pete Zicato

more altruistic owners

Snicker

Perhaps, Other:
Outsourcing to countries which don't have laws about child labour, health and safety, building regulations, maximum working hours etc etc? Aye. Trying to save lives cripples production and industry, unless they can relocate into a country where being crippled is an everyday hazard.

England has had some bloody awful fires a lot more recently than 1911. I'm not diminishing the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, it's just that they were also huge incidents and all have a legacy in terms of safety.
Those alive learn and try to redefine what is safe.

Bradford City (football club) - 56 died (265 injured) - 1985
Caught live on TV. Albeit from across the ground, but the panic and the sheer speed of the fire and the horror of the commentator is shocking. Our Hindenburg.

Kings Cross (Underground station) - 31 dead - 1987
Smoking was still allowed on the Tube until then

Piper Alpha (Oil Rig) - 167 dead - 1988
Only 62 survivors
Red Adair finally extinguished the flames 3 weeks later

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by Cloud

this incident specifically gave rise to the unions, which did a lot in terms of protecting workers' rights and improving conditions.

I, too, thought of the nightclub fires in recent years. No unions for partygoers, unfortunately.

That's why

You

have
to
fight

for
your
right

to
P A R T Y !

[Pete Zicato]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Snicker

Well yes, I was being facetious. I posted this to point out the necessity of (at least some) government regulation.

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Bradford City (football club) - 56 died (265 injured) - 1985
Caught live on TV. Albeit from across the ground, but the panic and the sheer speed of the fire and the horror of the commentator is shocking. Our Hindenburg.

Holy crap, Sundae. I can't believe how fast that went up. I suspect a lot of the deaths were due to the fact that the spectators didn't believe it was going to go like that either. Look at how many hang around their seats until they're in serious danger.

The footage Sundae mentions: