Anonymous and LulzSec

[DanaC]

Y'know it's one thing fighting an underground war for net freedom and poking the machine for lulz and satisfaction, but apparently now they've sent emails to a politician threatening her children.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14618400

I'm no fan of Louise Mensch, her politics are way to the right of my comfort zone, but she has a right and a responsibility to engage fully with policy debate. How the fuck does bullying serving members of Parliament into shying from their stated positions a defence of 'free speech'?

My latent anti-establishment attitudes, and past love of cyber-punk fiction, means i usually have a sneaking admiration and liking for the kids (and older kids :P) who play with the machine in interesting ways. But I just lost all sympathy, admiration or liking for this lot.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Y'know it's one thing fighting an underground war for net freedom and poking the machine for lulz and satisfaction, but apparently now they've sent emails to a politician threatening her children.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14618400

I'm no fan of Louise Mensch, her politics are way to the right of my comfort zone, but she has a right and a responsibility to engage fully with policy debate. How the fuck does bullying serving members of Parliament into shying from their stated positions a defence of 'free speech'?

My latent anti-establishment attitudes, and past love of cyber-punk fiction, means i usually have a sneaking admiration and liking for the kids (and older kids :P) who play with the machine in interesting ways. But I just lost all sympathy, admiration or liking for this lot.

Hypothetically speaking, let's say you had a troublesome group of folks and you needed to take the wind out of their sails and turn public opinion against them, why not do something reprehensible in their name? This works especially well if the group is anonymous.

If the group isn't anonymous you just do what they did to Scott Ritter, plant a bunch of kiddy porn on his computer and tell him to STFU or else.

[classicman]

Still not sure it was Anonymous yet. This seems a little odd for them.
Could be some nutjob wannabe though. Time will tell.

[Sundae]

Thing is, I also don't condone targetting companies where the vast majority of people working for them are simply drones.
Who's coining in the bonuses and big salaries? Jim who swipes in and swipes out every day and prays for overtime so he can support his kids?
No.

Who is a politician and probably caught up in a expenses scandal (no I haven't looked) and gets bloody good working conditions and an undreamed of pension compared to old Jim? Yup, Louise.

You know I deplore violence, and I don't agree with the threats that have been issued.
But she's in far less danger than Jim, who borrowed off Len the Shark to send his kid on a school trip and now isn't sure where the next paycheck is coming from. You can bet Louise has police outside her door and private healthcre if fingers gets broken.

And it won't happen anyway.
Not even the IRA were able to sustain their campaign of atrocity after 9/11.
They've tried bloody hard, but funding has dried up, and public opinion is resolutely against them. No relief to the families of those slaughtered recently, but a relief in those cites that suffered the worst of the indiscrimate murder before.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

you just do what they did to Scott Ritter, plant a bunch of kiddy porn on his computer and tell him to STFU or else.

Man they are still at it with him. When will they let go.

[DanaC]

My point is, that you don't target someone's kids.

The reason she's been targeted is because she supports the idea of police powers to shut odwn social media sites temporarily during times of unrest. Because that is a threat to free speech. But targeting the families of politicians is also a threat to free speech.

[Sundae]

My point is, many, many groups target people's kids.
Directly and indirectly.
I refuse to be sickened by it just because she is white and middle class.

I abhor it, but at least politicians had a choice.
The parents of many children affected by crime had no choice.
To me, when it's organised, it's terrorism pure and simple.
And I've always spoken out about it.

A previously non-violent group have decided to target children rather than livelihoods. They're showing their true colours. Once you start embarking in illegal protests in the name of politics, innocent people will get hurt. This time it might be kids. Well, fair enough. You disable a policeman you hurt his kids. You burn down someone's shop you stop a family from providing for their kids and if they sleep above it they could easily burn to death. You kill shoot a drug dealer you hurt his kids. You stab a 15 year old, or a Malaysian student just arrived in London and all that and everything.

It's called politics, or street crime, or gangs.

Until it's your family member.
And then it's called death,

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Man they are still at it with him. When will they let go.

Three times is a charm?

I'm waiting for the leaked pics, we saw enough of what's his name from new york

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Sundae

My point is, many, many groups target people's kids.
Directly and indirectly.
I refuse to be sickened by it just because she is white and middle class.

I abhor it, but at least politicians had a choice.
The parents of many children affected by crime had no choice.
To me, when it's organised, it's terrorism pure and simple.
And I've always spoken out about it.

A previously non-violent group have decided to target children rather than livelihoods. They're showing their true colours. Once you start embarking in illegal protests in the name of politics, innocent people will get hurt. This time it might be kids. Well, fair enough. You disable a policeman you hurt his kids. You burn down someone's shop you stop a family from providing for their kids and if they sleep above it they could easily burn to death. You kill shoot a drug dealer you hurt his kids. You stab a 15 year old, or a Malaysian student just arrived in London and all that and everything.

It's called politics, or street crime, or gangs.

Until it's your family member.
And then it's called death,

Why does her being white and middle class have anythng to do with anything? I am sickened by anybody who targets children.

But to do this as some kind of defence of free speech is ludicrous. Targeting a politician with threats to them or their children on the grounds that they have taken a political stance is itself an attack on free speech.

[Sundae]

I simply mean because it happens all over the world, but it doesn't make headlines because it isn't happening to "one of us". Their cause would IMPLODE if they injured white middle class English kids!

This woman probably doesn't have blood on her hands, but I am really not shocked by extreme action groups moving to bloodshed. Even if this is impotent threats. I have a deep seated suspicion of all activists that cross the line into criminality. They draw their lines in the sand, then just have to keep escalating once they're wiped out.

American citizens shook Noraid tins in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave in order to murder British men, women and children. Aided by money and weapons from everyone's favourite Uncle - Gaddifi of course.

Been there, seen it, thanked FSM that this time they didn't get me or mine.

And as always, my politics are written on a VERY small scale.
I can simply not forgive broken buildings and smashed bodies in a city I spent a lot of my childhood in.

[DanaC]

This isn't to do with the riots. This isn;t an armed group of terrorists and insurgents. They're hackers.
I doubt they'd actually cause anyone any injury. My problem with this is that she's an elected member of parliament. Politicians have to be able to take the stand they believe is right without fear of violent reprisals. Otherwise society cannot be free. A threat against an elected MP or their family for what they support or don't is an attack on all of us.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Politicians...without fear \\ society...free.

Thanks for the oxymoron.

[morethanpretty]

It would be really easy for someone to fake an email from LulzSec/Anonymous from what I understand. This wasn't a broad flashy announcement like what is typical of Anonymous. It was a single email to the person they are supposedly targeting. Now does that really seem like the action of a hacking group that favors flash, dramatics and attention? Seems suspicious is all I'm saying. The source has not been confirmed, just the existence of a malicious email sent to MP Louise Mensch. I'm just saying, maybe you should wait for confirmation that it actually was from them before you judge them for it.

[classicman]

Agreed MTP.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Sundae

My point is, many, many groups target people's kids.

Happens all the time here. Hell, Palin's kids have been dragged through the press and lefty-blogs on a pretty regular basis during the last election.